[Jim B]

Windows Vista is facing stiff competition from an unlikely source: Windows XP.

The six-year-old operating system is showing surprising strength more than half a year after the full launch of its successor. In April, Dell acknowledged continued XP demand and resumed offering XP as an option on new systems. In July, Microsoft chief financial officer Chris Liddell ratcheted up the percentage of OS sales the company expects XP to account for in fiscal year 2008 from 15 percent to 22 percent. Finally, in August, Microsoft announced an XP Service Pack 2c release that does nothing more than add new Windows XP product keys so the company can keep selling the OS to businesses through January 31, 2009.

In addition, customers who purchase a Vista machine from Dell, HP, or Lenovo (among other vendors) can use a vendor-supplied XP Pro recovery disc to replace the Vista operating system on their system with XP Pro.

The wait-and-see approach of Mark Sanford, a 40-year-old software developer in San Francisco, seems typical of many users. Sanford's PC--with a 3-GHz CPU, 2GB of memory, and a 256MB video card--could handle Vista, but he says he has no plans to upgrade from XP. Sanford says he's gotten to know XP's idiosyncrasies, and has his network and software running smoothly on the aging OS. "XP is plenty good enough," he says. So nothing is pushing him away from XP, and likewise nothing is pulling him strongly to Vista.

"The Aero interface is beautiful," he says, but "When I look at Vista, there's really nothing there that's a must-have kind of feature."

Behind the Pace

Certainly sales of Vista aren't blowing away XP in stores. Chris Swenson, director of software industry analysis for the NPD Group, says that, from January through July of this year, XP sales accounted for a healthy 42.3 percent of online and brick-and-mortar retail OS sales. By contrast, from January through July of 2002, after XP's launch in October the year prior, Windows 98 accounted for just 23.1 percent of retail sales. (Windows Me launched after Windows 98, but it didn't supplant the older OS.)

Of course, retail sales are only part of the story. With PC prices dropping over the past few years, and with Vista's higher hardware requirements, it's a "no-brainer," according to Swenson, for many people to buy a new PC rather than upgrade an old one. And the large majority of Vista users get the OS on their new systems.

Still, PCWorld.com visitors don't seem to be in any rush to switch to Vista. Our traffic numbers show Vista machines accounting for just 10 percent of the traffic to our site during September (see "Vista vs. XP After 8 Months").

Dell, which offers a choice of Vista or XP on its new computers, is staying close-lipped about how many XP computers it sells compared with Vista. But Michelle Pearcy, manager of the global marketing software team at Dell, confirms that the company is seeing the same trend as Microsoft: XP sales will be higher than expected during its next fiscal year.

[Rollbar]

Quote

In addition, customers who purchase a Vista machine from Dell, HP, or Lenovo (among other vendors) can use a vendor-supplied XP Pro recovery disc to replace the Vista operating system on their system with XP Pro.

Jim, if U have one mail it so I can get rid og this Vista garbage. Just check my sig line, I've had to wipe out my HDrive twice w/Vista & I bought the HP in Feb '07. Help,

[LostJ]

im still happy with my

[Jim B]

Rollbar, on Sep 26 2007, 09:55 AM, said:

Jim, if U have one mail it so I can get rid og this Vista garbage. Just check my sig line, I've had to wipe out my HDrive twice w/Vista & I bought the HP in Feb '07. Help,

Jim, see if you can call HP and tell them about the problems, they might just provide you with the XP disk. I don't have that special recovery that the article talks about but I would be glad to get you a copy of my XP Pro disk. Not sure if the serial would work from your Vista. Maybe doing a recovery it will see that you have an authentic Vista.... not sure. See what HP has to say.

oreo, on Sep 26 2007, 10:05 AM, said:

im still happy with my

You've got to be kidding me! Most (still some) of the new current software does not support the 95.

[Rollbar]

OK, I'm gonna hook up my LTop & connect to customer service, I'll let U know.

[Rollbar]

Here's what HP say's : http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/generic...=en&lang=en

They will also send me a factory recovery disc for Vista, I did not know I could get the pre-installed version on a disc but if U ask, they will send it . They also said I had to have a copy of the XP OS if I wanted to revert back to XP since Vista was per-installed etc.


HP Notebook PCs - Issues with Downgrading HP Pavilion and Compaq Presario PCs to Windows XP and Restoring Windows Vista.


Issues you will experience if you downgrade from Vista to XP
Things to do before you make any changes to your PC
Things to do if you changed the OS and your PC is not working properly
Things to do if you upgraded from Windows XP to Vista and want to return to XP
Reasons not to try a dual-boot system


This document pertains to HP Pavilion and Compaq Presario Notebook PCs that shipped with Windows Vista.
This document does not apply to Commercial Notebook and Desktop PCs. Select business notebook models; including the 2510p, 2710p, 6910p, 8510p, 8710p, 6510b 6515b, 6710b, and 6715b, as well as other models support Windows XP.
Issues you will experience if you downgrade from Vista to XP
If you have an HP Pavilion or Compaq Presario consumer notebook PC that shipped with Windows Vista, you should not attempt to downgrade to Windows XP. Changing the operating system (OS) will cause severe operational problems. Many of the components, such as sound, video, graphics, network connectivity, drives, or other devices and peripherals, may have limited functionality, or may not work at all. You should do some research on the support policies of hardware and software manufacturers, and review the problems experienced by other users, before you consider changing the operating system.
You may experience the following conditions if you downgrade an HP Pavilion or Compaq Presario consumer notebook, which was designed for Vista, to an older operating system:
HP does not provide Windows XP-compatible drivers for functions such as sound, video, graphics, network connectivity, drives, or other devices and peripherals for these consumer notebooks.
Changing the operating system may require you to reinstall the original software image when troubleshooting possible software and hardware issues with technical support.
Some component manufacturers do not provide Windows XP-compatible drivers for components that they designed for Windows Vista.
Even if a third-party company or Windows itself can provide generic drivers that will allow all of your devices to operate, the performance of your HP PC may be less than optimal.
If you decide to downgrade your PC from Vista to XP, in spite of the known hardware and software problems, or if you have already tried to make the change and your PC does not work properly, read the other sections of this document. There is also a section that discusses the problems with setting up a dual-boot system.
Things to do before you make any changes to your PC
If you have decided to downgrade from Vista to XP, or to make any other OS changes, in spite of the known hardware and software problems, you may find the following recommendations useful.
Create a set of Windows Vista Recovery DVDs. You were prompted to create a set of recovery DVDs the first time that you started your Vista PC. If you create a set of recovery discs, and then encounter problems after changing your OS, you can use the set of recovery discs to reinstall Windows Vista with all of the required hardware drivers to restore your PC to its original condition.
If you have not yet created a set of recovery discs, please get at least two (2) DVD-R discs and create a set of Windows Vista recovery discs now. With these Vista recovery discs, you will be able to return your PC to a stable base state, just in case things do not go as planned. To create the recovery discs, re-start the PC, and press F11 to launch the HP Backup and Recovery Manager . You may make one (1) set of recovery discs. For more information, see HP Notebook PCs - Using HP Recovery Manager below.
If you cannot locate your recovery disks, or if the attempt to create the recovery discs failed, contact HP to purchase a replacement Vista recovery disc.
Research XP drivers. Check the list of devices that are on your computer, and go to the manufacturers' web sites for information about what drivers they provide for their devices. Please be aware that some components work together, and if drivers for one component are not available, then the other devices may function poorly, or not at all.
Things to do if you changed the OS and your PC is not working properly
If you have already downgraded your computer from Vista to Windows XP, you have probably discovered that your PC does not work properly. You may have noticed that features like sound, DVD, or the webcam on your new PC have stopped working. You are probably wondering where you can find the right XP drivers. HP does NOT provide XP-compatible drivers for PCs that were designed exclusively for Vista. If your PC shipped with Vista, HP supports the installed hardware and software while the PC is operating with the Vista operating system, according to the written agreements.
NOTE: You may attempt to use non-Vista drivers and programs that are provided by other companies; however, HP cannot provide technical support or diagnose potential hardware issues until you reinstall the original Vista operating system.

To resolve your hardware and software problems, you MUST reinstall the Vista operating system that was installed on your PC as follows:
If you created your Windows Vista HP Recovery DVDs while you were still operating with Vista, insert the recovery disc and restart the PC to restore your operating system to Vista. For more detailed information, see HP Notebook PCs -- Using HP Recovery Manager .
If you did not create your HP Recovery DVDs before downgrading your computer to Windows XP, you must order a recovery disc set directly from HP. For more detailed information, see HP Notebook PCs - Obtaining a Recovery CD or DVD set .
Things to do if you upgraded from Windows XP to Vista and want to return to XP
If you purchased a Vista-capable HP notebook PC that shipped with Windows XP, and you upgraded it to Vista, you can reinstall XP, provided that you reinstall all of the XP-compatible drivers.
NOTE: In all cases, the BIOS and the hardware drivers must be designed as compatible with the operating system. Specifically, XP drivers will not work with the Vista OS, and Vista drivers will not work with the XP OS.

To resolve your hardware and software problems, you may reinstall the XP operating system that was installed on your PC as follows:
If you created your Windows XP HP Recovery discs while you were still operating with XP, insert the first disc and restart the PC to restore your system to XP.
If you did not create your HP Recovery discs while you were running Windows XP, you must order an XP recovery disc set directly from HP. For more detailed information, see HP Notebook PCs - Obtaining a Recovery CD or DVD set .
After the PC is returned to its original configuration, go to the Software and Driver Downloads web page on the HP web site and install any updated XP drivers. Be sure to install the latest BIOS that is listed on the XP pages and do not install any Vista drivers.
Reasons not to try a dual-boot system
While documentation on how to use dual-booting may be available on the web, HP does not support computers that have been set up in a dual-boot configuration. The dual-boot requires hardware drivers for both operating systems, and HP does not provide drivers for components that were not designed for the specific operating system. Such a configuration change may require you to reinstall the original software image when troubleshooting possible software and hardware issues with technical support.
Additionally, even if you could find some generic third-party drivers that would allow you to setup a dual-boot configuration on your notebook, you should consider the size of your hard drive. Each operating system takes up a considerable amount of space on the hard drive. Installing both XP and Vista may limit the amount of space that you have available for other applications, which will degrade performance.
See Also
HP Notebook PCs - Using HP Recovery Manager

[Jim B]

Hogwash. Find out what your laptop has and HP should have the drivers for the sound, ec. You will have to do some research. Ltops are easier than desktops because desktops have a lot more hardware.

The simplest way is to make an image back up or recovery for the Vista you have now. Install the XP while you are connected to the internet and look at your hardware properties and see which ones have question marks, normally they automatically link to the web and download the driver.

Ultimately if you can not get it to work just use your image vista or recovery disk and copy it back.

Besides, look at your signature... what do you have to lose.

[Rollbar]

Jim B, on Sep 26 2007, 11:43 AM, said:

Hogwash.

Besides, look at your signature... what do you have to lose.

Now that is funny right there,

P.S. Do U have PC of the month , I could win it U know,

[92SquareEye]

hrm. I'm running MacOS X (10.4.10) on an MacBook Pro (Intel DualCore) and I don't have any of these problems. I used to; but then I stopped running WindowsXP on my Mac and things have been fine since.....

- dave

[fishalways]

Jim B, on Sep 26 2007, 10:38 AM, said:

You've got to be kidding me! Most (still some) of the new current software does not support VISTA.

Had to correct you just a little there.
I have seen to many issues with vista already, I wouldn't use it if someone paid me.
Most IT guys I have talked to have equated Vista to Millenium. It's a stopgap OS until the true next generation comes out.

My opinion is vista is garbage.

[nero004]

LrdJeffson, on Sep 26 2007, 12:17 PM, said:

hrm. I'm running MacOS X (10.4.10) on an MacBook Pro (Intel DualCore) and I don't have any of these problems. I used to; but then I stopped running WindowsXP on my Mac and things have been fine since.....

- dave

yea just get a MAC. much better. nd im running 10.3

[Jim B]

For you Mac users. It is a nice OS, however.... not enough programs run on them.
They are also too much of a propriatory company not sharing resources.
One of the reasons anything for Apple is so much more expensive.

I think our Admin runs both Mac and XP Pro preferring the XP Pro. But I know he does not get into debates. :D

[Rollbar]

I think I can trade him (Admin) my new LTop w/Vista for his XP

[SeaMonkey]

I dunno, I still use Mac from 2001 (G4) while all my PC friends have gone through 2-3 Dells or whatever during that span. Macs may cost more out the door, but are alot cheaper to own.

[TiredPete]

Here are a couple of videos for you MAC guys....

[Livefree]

I used to own mac's myself. I switched with windows 95 and now have xp on three pc's two laptops and one desktop. Lots crashes to the hard drive on verious machines but never on my mac's. I have considered making my next another mac. But I end up using my laptop for work to many times. Although I can get MS office pro for both units the tex font is differnt and it screws up the formating in word. So I will probley make my next another Windows unit.

[JeepChik17]

i have a macbook pro and ive had alot of problems with it like battery and now apparently i have to replace the hardrive....BUT my sisters and boyfriends mac is fine, i got the problem computer....but i love it and its easy i run macosx also. but then my main computer is a pc with xp and i also love it....
i am just mad because i cant run "where in the world is carmen sandiego" on the xp . lol

[TiredPete]

jeepchik17, on Sep 26 2007, 10:15 PM, said:

i am just mad because i cant run "where in the world is carmen sandiego" on the xp . lol

They have it for a $10 download and on the system requirements tab they claim it runs on Windows® 98SE/ME/2000 SP4/XP/Vista

Carmen Sandiego

Pete

[Jim B]

TiredPete, on Sep 26 2007, 07:17 PM, said:

Here are a couple of videos for you MAC guys....

Pete the 1st video had me rolling a bit.

I have always been very reluctant to get anything computer that is Apple from what I have stated before. They do have some neat stuff like the iPod, Nano and now the iPhone among other similar products (not much).

I was bit reluctant when it first came out and waited till the smoke cleared and got the iPhone. I do have to say that after using it for little over a month I don't think I can go back to using any other phone. It can be improved some as they have with new updates. A lot of the wining that I read about is mostly people that don't know how to use it and people wanting it to have more features including a roll of toilet paper.

I do miss two things, I can not tether my laptop or have a miny recorder to remind me of things I have to do when I get to the office. I do hope this comes out on an update. I see on the net that there are already hacks for these two features which people are using, so I know it is possible and just a matter of time. I refuse to hack the phone even though it can be restored, so I'm in no hurry.

Battery last me 4 days because I don't watch movies on a 3" screen all day, if I did I would have to charge it daily. Everything else I do with normal moderation and it works excellent. They talk about battery replacement and the phone being sent back to Apple after 2 years, I can understand why since it is so thin, to me this is no biggy as any spare phone will do for the mean time. But for guys that are mechanically incline, a third party has now a tool and battery so you can do it yourself. They even have a video on how to do it. After watching it though I would still have to think about it. :construction:

All this said I can feel the proprietary feeling of Apple even with the iPhone. Not so much with At&t (been with them 9 years) but for third party vendors that can actually have more applications, if it is not Apple doing it, you can forget about it.

[Jim B]

Forgot one more important hot news that just came out.

Here is Steve, head of Apple Inc. introducing a brand new product released just today in time for Xmas!

Apple's New Product

[cherokee96]

I have a Dell Dimension C521 and got Vista free when it came out. I haven't really encountered any problems that I can pinpoint down to Vista being the culprit. I'm a computer newbie basically, so maybe there's probs I don't even know about? What should I look for?

[fishalways]

Just a bit of new info.

My IT guy just found out they are keeping XP available until June.

I wonder how many complaints they are getting from Vista