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Cage Fest Build & Install ***warning*** lots of pics

#1 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 11:09 PM

I have been chomping at the bit ever since I got a couple cage pieces bent & sent to me from my friend Martin. Thing is - I decided to go a bit further than initially anticipated and have been waiting to team-up with a friend of mine so we could invest a weekend into getting things put together. Being a cage newbie - I wanted to seek the help of a great friend (Adam), plus tap off his skills and use some of his and another friends bender and notcher.

Anyway, here's a few pics of how things turned out. A BIG thanks goes to my friends Adam for his major contributions, and my friend Chris who loaned me a hydro bender and nice notcher. :gun:

While Adam was busy doing most of the bending and cutting of the tube, I was busy making some contoured floor plates. Yep - the cage will be tied into the frame in 6 places when all is said & done.

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First piece complete:
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Second piece done & the beginnings of the rear:
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Having some fun with the tube notcher:
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Rear down bars going in:
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Windshield crossbars going in:
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Rear upper braces going in:
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More to follow

Cage upper tie-ins going in:
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Cross bracing:
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We finished things up with a couple grab bars. Here's how it looks as of tonight. I still have some work to do, but the bulk of it is done.

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#2 User is offline   MrSig 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 04:17 AM

With all that great protection I know your going to ride that jeep hard. :gun:
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#3 User is offline   JeepinJimmy 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 06:03 AM

Great install! Looks awesome. :gun:
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#4 User is offline   73_cj_project 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 07:55 AM

Looks good, one question about the front hoop, is that bar in the way of the pedals at all, any reason you didn't put a bend to move it out towards the door more? Just asking, wasn't sure if there was a body mount or something in the way of doing the frame tie in. Looks good though.

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#5 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 09:38 AM

Thanks guys. :gun:

73_cj_project, Good questions Gus. Naw, it's fine & does not interfere with the pedals at all. However, it is a tight squeeze with no bend for the ebrake release handle. If it were to be bent towards the firewall at all, I wouldn't be able to release the ebrake.

Also, when the 1/2 doors are on, if the bar was anymore outwards, I wouldn't be able to close the doors. Or if it was anymore inwards - it would crush the dash.

#6 User is offline   JeepinIan 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 10:29 AM

Joe, I like the overall cage. The triangulation for the hoop is great.
I was wondering about the strength at the A B and C cage pillars where they tie into the top hoop. I would think it would collapse a lot easier than if those pillars were trianglulated.
I guess picture an impact to the front hoop pushing the whole cage backwards, or visa-versa. I guess a front roll or a rear roll, as well as a side roll.
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#7 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 01 August 2007 - 11:55 AM

Good stuff Joe. :gun:

View Post73_cj_project, on Aug 1 2007, 08:55 AM, said:

Just asking, wasn't sure if there was a body mount or something in the way of doing the frame tie in. Looks good though.
Gus

Gus, by looking at these pics I don't think Joe is planning a frame tie in, could be mistaken though.

View PostJeepinIan, on Aug 1 2007, 11:29 AM, said:

I was wondering about the strength at the A B and C cage pillars where they tie into the top hoop. I would think it would collapse a lot easier than if those pillars were trianglulated.

I'm sure he would walk away and I agree that even in a small flop it would hold up better with support triangulation to the pillars.

Wish I had some on mine, I'm just hoping that the cross bar I have in the back tying across (that the harness support hangs on) would help.
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#8 User is offline   NonStop 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 12:34 PM

I really like the work and the thought that went into it... I wonder if you are going to put any cross braces in that seat back area, frome say 3/4 height to the floor, or the same on the sides, maybe rear also. seems like everything but the mounting to the floor is triangulated, that makes me feel like it is a strong table top with skinny legs..I think everyonee has sat on a table and had the table legs slide out sideways and collapse, maybe I was a fat kid, but ya'll get the point.. I stink at illustrating things and I am no cage builder..I just see a great canopy.. Congrats on the

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I just read some of the posts and I guess this is a little of a repost..
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#9 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 12:50 PM

Nice Job Joe! :gun:

?-R U gonna tie the roll bar into frame?
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#10 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 01 August 2007 - 12:57 PM

View PostRollbar, on Aug 1 2007, 01:50 PM, said:

Nice Job Joe! :gun:
?-R U gonna tie the roll bar into frame?

Jim,
I don't think he will be able to do this unlesss all the bottom supports to the cage (and cage itself) is free and clear from the tub acting independently from the frame. Think about the twisting and tweaking he would have if both body and frame were tied together.

Mine is only tied to the tub and I have no frame tie in. The best is frame (a lot of work), but most of us are just trying to walk away from Murphy when the time comes.
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#11 User is offline   73_cj_project 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:02 PM

View PostJoe Dillard, on Aug 1 2007, 12:09 AM, said:

Yep - the cage will be tied into the frame in 6 places when all is said & done.


I think that answers the questions about tying into the frame. It pays to read :D

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#12 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:06 PM

View Post73_cj_project, on Aug 1 2007, 02:02 PM, said:

I think that answers the questions about tying into the frame. It pays to read :D
Gus

Nice cath Gus. :ya: Looks like I also read too fast. :tongue1: Or the post was edited. :gun:

Now it's up to Joe to show us the steps. :ya:
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#13 User is offline   73_cj_project 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:07 PM

It was there the first time I read it, thus my question about it. It pays to be late sometimes :D

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#14 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:10 PM

OK but where is the strength in the roll bar, the sheet metal is thin on these Jeeps. Now w/that said, I guess the down supports are located just above the tub frame supports/body mounts for the tub. Is this correct & is this the proper way to install the cage?
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#15 User is offline   NonStop 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:10 PM

Not gonna start a pissing match, but I still think a rigid frame mount to six legs up with no angular/triangulatetion on the uprights equals fat kid sitting on a table top that ends up with legs slidin out, or just picture pressing down on a soda can, strong top and bottom...any input.. But no I do like the work, just confused, even if the legs are to the frame, they can be tied to one and other.. anyone? Not bashing the great work.. only hate to see anyone squished..
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#16 User is offline   JeepinIan 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 02:19 PM

View PostNonstopWJ, on Aug 1 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

Not gonna start a pissing match, but I still think a rigid frame mount to six legs up with no angular/triangulatetion on the uprights equals fat kid sitting on a table top that ends up with legs slidin out, or just picture pressing down on a soda can, strong top and bottom...any input.. But no I do like the work, just confused, even if the legs are to the frame, they can be tied to one and other.. anyone? Not bashing the great work.. only hate to see anyone squished..



That's why I asked about triangulation. I know that it is about a compromise, as this is not a race vehicle, so some strength is lost, but if the A B and C pillars were triangulated, at least to some degree, it would be much stronger.
Ian Stewart

If you don't fight for the trails, there won't be any trails to fight for.

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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ....

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#17 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 06:12 PM

Thanks for the comments everybody. :thumbsup:

The rear down bar is already tied into the B-pillar, but I didn't post a good pic of that yet. I'll snap a few pics in a couple minutes & post them.

Also, the B-pillar will be tied to the lower portion of the front downbar after I have more time to cut & weld a few more pieces. So rest assured, the lower part of the "legs" will be plenty sturdy. :gathering:

Yep - I will have 6 frame tie-ins when all is said & done. At this point, it is only tied to the top of the tub because we ran out of time (I did all the work at a friends house this past weekend ~2 hours drive away). We ran out of time.

The tub floor plates are 6"x6"x1/4" thick, and contour the tub. The plates that will go under the tub/floor are 8"x8"x1/4" thick and will sandwich the tub. I have some tabs that will be welded to the frame and these tabs will sandwich some ~2" poly bushings filled with 5/8" grade 8 bolts & grade 8 nylocks, and inner & outer sleeves. These bushings outer sleeves will be welded to a piece of 1.75"x.120 wall tubing and welded to the plates. Each piece that's sandwiched will have (at a minimum) 4, 1/2" grade 5 bolts & nylocks.

I still have plenty to do, but feel free to ask questions. :shock2:

I'll post a few pics of the plates, tie-in components, hardware, etc soon.

#18 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 08:29 PM

Here's how the B-pillar is tied into the rear downbar:
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The front & rear cargo areas are tiangulated pretty well if you ask me. Here's a view of how I did that portion:
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Here's how I ran a brace behind the seats and tied things together:
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This is the mounting plates I was talking about earlier, plus hardware etc. Not everything is included in this pic because some of it is already installed. As you can see, I'm fabricating my own inner sleeves, drilling my own bolt patterns, bending the plates myself, plus other items.
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This is basically how the tabs will be welded to the frame with the bushings. This is very much the same way as motor mounts are installed. I'll be welding tubing onto the outer sleeve and welding that tubing to the lower plates.
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The frame mount tabs, bushings, along with a piece of tubing will be welded to this style plate under the tub.
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Like I mentioned earlier - feel free to ask questions. :gathering:

#19 User is offline   73_cj_project 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 08:44 PM

Eh, just cut holes in the tub and send the tube down through and weld it to the frame :D It's a nice set up you've got going there, lots of fab work for sure. But I suppose it's nice to be able to remove the cage. Us silly bastards, we just weld everything in place, if it breaks, or breaks off, we'll build it stouter next time :D Definitely nice work, keep it up. Any time frame for having it done? Gonna paint or powdercoat it when you're done?

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#20 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 09:05 PM

Hi Gus, points well taken. :D I did consider welding everything strait to the frame - but decided otherwise for the time being.

I hope to have it finished by the end of the upcoming weekend. The tubing that will be used for underneath is being notched by my friend & sent to me since he lives ~2 hours away. When I get that - I'll be ready to rock & roll. :gathering:

It will not be powder coated due to the abuse it will see. I will be rattle canning it & doing touch-up often.

#21 User is offline   73_cj_project 

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 09:30 PM

Sounds good, I was semi-joking about the welding it in thing, most people cringe when you say weld to the frame, but if you're going to tube stuff, it's the only way to fly once you get to a point. The set up you have will definitely work fine. And I understand about the rattle can and touch ups, it's all I ever do. I did however have my grill blasted and powdercoated, it was only $75 so it was well worth it to have it rust free and looking good. But my bumpers, bars, etc, are all rattle can, it's awesome stuff, and plentiful and easy to touch up like you said. Keep up the good work.

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#22 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 01 August 2007 - 10:47 PM

Joe,

When I briefly read by just looking at the pics missing the part about tying to the frame on your first post, I assumed you were just going to tie in at the tub, many setups are also this way.

I really like the way you are isolating tub and frame with the bushings. :thumbsup: A lot more work but if I ever re do my stuff, this is the way I would do it. I particularly do not like cutting the tub and going through with welded tubes to the frame. Looks like you guys put in some nice work on the brackets. Pays to have a good friend that is also handy with the mighty welder. :shock2:

The only drawback that I can see with the sandwiched brackets at the tub is the possibility of rust in certain parts of the country. They do make a few things to prevent this now a days and this would need to be addressed for some more than others.

Keep takink those pics! :gathering:
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#23 User is offline   JeepinIan 

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:06 AM

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What I am talking about is the lines I put in. The red for over the entrance, and preferably the yelow for the back. What you have now is a big box where the lower legs are tied together and the upper halo is holding the pillars together. If you add these couple of pieces, the strength will increase tremendously. Also, a piece should be added to the A pillar to the halo.
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If you don't fight for the trails, there won't be any trails to fight for.

What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.
Zig Ziglar

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ....

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#24 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 09:08 PM

View PostJeepinIan, on Aug 2 2007, 06:06 AM, said:

What I am talking about is the lines I put in. The red for over the entrance, and preferably the yelow for the back. What you have now is a big box where the lower legs are tied together and the upper halo is holding the pillars together. If you add these couple of pieces, the strength will increase tremendously. Also, a piece should be added to the A pillar to the halo.

I appreciate the feedback. :) However, I have a feeling you have not seen all I have did so far (this is very key which is more than the pics reflect) which leads me to believe I'm doing just fine. :)

The Bend Tech computer program I use suggests that what you mentioned is quite a bit less effective/ideal than how I did it after crunching the numbers and angles. Perhaps this Bend Tech program needs some updates, I don't know, but I doubt it. It's currently used for NASCAR cages which my friend builds fulltime for a living.

Regardless, I now have some Streamline 4130 chromo 1.349 MA (width) x .571 M1 (OD) x .049 W (wall) R/L for my windshield supports. This Streamline is teardrop shaped and allows for superior strength and vision thru the windshield.

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#25 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 11:54 PM

Update:

Well, after carefull consideration, I decided to remove some of the overhead cage tubing and redo it so it has less of a chance of knocking somebodys pumpkin.

Here's how it looked before I removed 3 of the overhead pieces of tubing. The strength was fine, it's just that I didn't feel comfortable with having it that close to anybodys head.

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As you can see, I redid things so there's far less of a chance that the cage overhead tubing would cause injury from folks bouncing or from sudded trail changes when your body sometimes gets tossed about. Sure, seatbelts would take care of some of that issue, but if folks with a taller stature were in it their safety would potentially be in jeopardy.

Plus, I added the 2 windshield chromo streamline pieces for a little more strength and tied the 2 overhead pieces together with some vented ~1/8" steel for shear strength. Then added a tab for the rear view mirror.

Hopefully, later today, the front frame tie-ins will be completed & my Jeep will be back home. Update on that - later.

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The front cage tie-ins were completed today. I think they came out really well.

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#26 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:01 AM

Joe,

Thanks for the update. I really like the changes. Keep them coming until the finish. :usflag: :thumbsup:

I think what you did here is really trick. :biggrin1:

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#27 User is offline   JeepinIan 

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:36 AM

Joe, those bushings are spring bushing,correct?

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Ian Stewart

If you don't fight for the trails, there won't be any trails to fight for.

What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.
Zig Ziglar

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ....

John Stuart Mill

#28 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:16 PM

Jim, thanks, will do.

Ian, I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect they are the same. The ones I initially purchased were bought at a speed shop and specifically used for exactly what I did (frame tie-ins). However, my friend who helped me out with this had a HUGE supply of some narrower poly bushings & we went with his since they fit better overall than the ones I already had.

#29 User is offline   JeepinJimmy 

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 12:47 PM

I like the tie in to the frame, was that your own design? :biggrin1:
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#30 User is offline   Joe Dillard 

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 04:38 PM

View PostJeepinjimmy, on Oct 19 2007, 12:47 PM, said:

I like the tie in to the frame, was that your own design? :scratch:

It was a combination of what I've seen on other rigs as far as the geometry is concerned, my $0.02, and my friend Adam. I didn't do the tie-in welding myself.

After taking into consideration as to how the entire cage is tied together (in 40 places) I wanted to tie to the frame without doing a "hard mount".

I wanted the frame to still be allowed to flex naturally, the tub to flex, the body mounts to still be allowed to function, and the cage design to be all tied together but not totally rigid.

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Miami Jeep Fort Lauderdale Jeep Dealer