Cage Fest Build & Install ***warning*** lots of pics
#1
Posted 31 July 2007 - 11:09 PM
Anyway, here's a few pics of how things turned out. A BIG thanks goes to my friends Adam for his major contributions, and my friend Chris who loaned me a hydro bender and nice notcher.
While Adam was busy doing most of the bending and cutting of the tube, I was busy making some contoured floor plates. Yep - the cage will be tied into the frame in 6 places when all is said & done.
First piece complete:
Second piece done & the beginnings of the rear:
Having some fun with the tube notcher:
Rear down bars going in:
Windshield crossbars going in:
Rear upper braces going in:
More to follow
Cage upper tie-ins going in:
Cross bracing:
We finished things up with a couple grab bars. Here's how it looks as of tonight. I still have some work to do, but the bulk of it is done.
#2
Posted 01 August 2007 - 04:17 AM
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#3
Posted 01 August 2007 - 06:03 AM
2004 Wrangler
#4
Posted 01 August 2007 - 07:55 AM
Gus
#5
Posted 01 August 2007 - 09:38 AM
73_cj_project, Good questions Gus. Naw, it's fine & does not interfere with the pedals at all. However, it is a tight squeeze with no bend for the ebrake release handle. If it were to be bent towards the firewall at all, I wouldn't be able to release the ebrake.
Also, when the 1/2 doors are on, if the bar was anymore outwards, I wouldn't be able to close the doors. Or if it was anymore inwards - it would crush the dash.
#6
Posted 01 August 2007 - 10:29 AM
I was wondering about the strength at the A B and C cage pillars where they tie into the top hoop. I would think it would collapse a lot easier than if those pillars were trianglulated.
I guess picture an impact to the front hoop pushing the whole cage backwards, or visa-versa. I guess a front roll or a rear roll, as well as a side roll.
If you don't fight for the trails, there won't be any trails to fight for.
What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.
Zig Ziglar
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ....
John Stuart Mill
#7
Posted 01 August 2007 - 11:55 AM
73_cj_project, on Aug 1 2007, 08:55 AM, said:
Gus
Gus, by looking at these pics I don't think Joe is planning a frame tie in, could be mistaken though.
JeepinIan, on Aug 1 2007, 11:29 AM, said:
I'm sure he would walk away and I agree that even in a small flop it would hold up better with support triangulation to the pillars.
Wish I had some on mine, I'm just hoping that the cross bar I have in the back tying across (that the harness support hangs on) would help.
El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...
There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 9th Commandment.
"Speak not Evil of the absent for it is unjust." George Washington, Rule 89 of Civility and Decent Behavior.
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#8
Posted 01 August 2007 - 12:34 PM
I just read some of the posts and I guess this is a little of a repost..
#9
Posted 01 August 2007 - 12:50 PM
?-R U gonna tie the roll bar into frame?
'48 Willys; '74CJ5; '80CJ7; '84 CJ8; '86 CJ7
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#10
Posted 01 August 2007 - 12:57 PM
Rollbar, on Aug 1 2007, 01:50 PM, said:
?-R U gonna tie the roll bar into frame?
Jim,
I don't think he will be able to do this unlesss all the bottom supports to the cage (and cage itself) is free and clear from the tub acting independently from the frame. Think about the twisting and tweaking he would have if both body and frame were tied together.
Mine is only tied to the tub and I have no frame tie in. The best is frame (a lot of work), but most of us are just trying to walk away from Murphy when the time comes.
El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...
There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 9th Commandment.
"Speak not Evil of the absent for it is unjust." George Washington, Rule 89 of Civility and Decent Behavior.
Wheeling Gallery ----- E-Mail
Life Member: South Florida Jeep Club
#11
#12
Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:06 PM
73_cj_project, on Aug 1 2007, 02:02 PM, said:
Gus
Nice cath Gus. Looks like I also read too fast. Or the post was edited.
Now it's up to Joe to show us the steps.
El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...
There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 9th Commandment.
"Speak not Evil of the absent for it is unjust." George Washington, Rule 89 of Civility and Decent Behavior.
Wheeling Gallery ----- E-Mail
Life Member: South Florida Jeep Club
#13
Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:07 PM
Gus
#14
Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:10 PM
'48 Willys; '74CJ5; '80CJ7; '84 CJ8; '86 CJ7
*Who Needs A Stinking Manual When You Have A Fat Wallet For Tech Support!*
*What man is a man who does not make the world better*
Support the Central Florida Bible Camp for kids
#15
Posted 01 August 2007 - 01:10 PM
#16
Posted 01 August 2007 - 02:19 PM
NonstopWJ, on Aug 1 2007, 02:10 PM, said:
That's why I asked about triangulation. I know that it is about a compromise, as this is not a race vehicle, so some strength is lost, but if the A B and C pillars were triangulated, at least to some degree, it would be much stronger.
If you don't fight for the trails, there won't be any trails to fight for.
What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.
Zig Ziglar
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ....
John Stuart Mill
#17
Posted 01 August 2007 - 06:12 PM
The rear down bar is already tied into the B-pillar, but I didn't post a good pic of that yet. I'll snap a few pics in a couple minutes & post them.
Also, the B-pillar will be tied to the lower portion of the front downbar after I have more time to cut & weld a few more pieces. So rest assured, the lower part of the "legs" will be plenty sturdy.
Yep - I will have 6 frame tie-ins when all is said & done. At this point, it is only tied to the top of the tub because we ran out of time (I did all the work at a friends house this past weekend ~2 hours drive away). We ran out of time.
The tub floor plates are 6"x6"x1/4" thick, and contour the tub. The plates that will go under the tub/floor are 8"x8"x1/4" thick and will sandwich the tub. I have some tabs that will be welded to the frame and these tabs will sandwich some ~2" poly bushings filled with 5/8" grade 8 bolts & grade 8 nylocks, and inner & outer sleeves. These bushings outer sleeves will be welded to a piece of 1.75"x.120 wall tubing and welded to the plates. Each piece that's sandwiched will have (at a minimum) 4, 1/2" grade 5 bolts & nylocks.
I still have plenty to do, but feel free to ask questions.
I'll post a few pics of the plates, tie-in components, hardware, etc soon.
#18
Posted 01 August 2007 - 08:29 PM
The front & rear cargo areas are tiangulated pretty well if you ask me. Here's a view of how I did that portion:
Here's how I ran a brace behind the seats and tied things together:
This is the mounting plates I was talking about earlier, plus hardware etc. Not everything is included in this pic because some of it is already installed. As you can see, I'm fabricating my own inner sleeves, drilling my own bolt patterns, bending the plates myself, plus other items.
This is basically how the tabs will be welded to the frame with the bushings. This is very much the same way as motor mounts are installed. I'll be welding tubing onto the outer sleeve and welding that tubing to the lower plates.
The frame mount tabs, bushings, along with a piece of tubing will be welded to this style plate under the tub.
Like I mentioned earlier - feel free to ask questions.
#19
Posted 01 August 2007 - 08:44 PM
Gus
#20
Posted 01 August 2007 - 09:05 PM
I hope to have it finished by the end of the upcoming weekend. The tubing that will be used for underneath is being notched by my friend & sent to me since he lives ~2 hours away. When I get that - I'll be ready to rock & roll.
It will not be powder coated due to the abuse it will see. I will be rattle canning it & doing touch-up often.
#21
Posted 01 August 2007 - 09:30 PM
Gus
#22
Posted 01 August 2007 - 10:47 PM
When I briefly read by just looking at the pics missing the part about tying to the frame on your first post, I assumed you were just going to tie in at the tub, many setups are also this way.
I really like the way you are isolating tub and frame with the bushings. A lot more work but if I ever re do my stuff, this is the way I would do it. I particularly do not like cutting the tub and going through with welded tubes to the frame. Looks like you guys put in some nice work on the brackets. Pays to have a good friend that is also handy with the mighty welder.
The only drawback that I can see with the sandwiched brackets at the tub is the possibility of rust in certain parts of the country. They do make a few things to prevent this now a days and this would need to be addressed for some more than others.
Keep takink those pics!
El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...
There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 9th Commandment.
"Speak not Evil of the absent for it is unjust." George Washington, Rule 89 of Civility and Decent Behavior.
Wheeling Gallery ----- E-Mail
Life Member: South Florida Jeep Club
#23
Posted 02 August 2007 - 06:06 AM
What I am talking about is the lines I put in. The red for over the entrance, and preferably the yelow for the back. What you have now is a big box where the lower legs are tied together and the upper halo is holding the pillars together. If you add these couple of pieces, the strength will increase tremendously. Also, a piece should be added to the A pillar to the halo.
If you don't fight for the trails, there won't be any trails to fight for.
What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.
Zig Ziglar
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ....
John Stuart Mill
#24
Posted 03 August 2007 - 09:08 PM
JeepinIan, on Aug 2 2007, 06:06 AM, said:
I appreciate the feedback. :) However, I have a feeling you have not seen all I have did so far (this is very key which is more than the pics reflect) which leads me to believe I'm doing just fine. :)
The Bend Tech computer program I use suggests that what you mentioned is quite a bit less effective/ideal than how I did it after crunching the numbers and angles. Perhaps this Bend Tech program needs some updates, I don't know, but I doubt it. It's currently used for NASCAR cages which my friend builds fulltime for a living.
Regardless, I now have some Streamline 4130 chromo 1.349 MA (width) x .571 M1 (OD) x .049 W (wall) R/L for my windshield supports. This Streamline is teardrop shaped and allows for superior strength and vision thru the windshield.
#25
Posted 14 October 2007 - 11:54 PM
Well, after carefull consideration, I decided to remove some of the overhead cage tubing and redo it so it has less of a chance of knocking somebodys pumpkin.
Here's how it looked before I removed 3 of the overhead pieces of tubing. The strength was fine, it's just that I didn't feel comfortable with having it that close to anybodys head.
As you can see, I redid things so there's far less of a chance that the cage overhead tubing would cause injury from folks bouncing or from sudded trail changes when your body sometimes gets tossed about. Sure, seatbelts would take care of some of that issue, but if folks with a taller stature were in it their safety would potentially be in jeopardy.
Plus, I added the 2 windshield chromo streamline pieces for a little more strength and tied the 2 overhead pieces together with some vented ~1/8" steel for shear strength. Then added a tab for the rear view mirror.
Hopefully, later today, the front frame tie-ins will be completed & my Jeep will be back home. Update on that - later.
The front cage tie-ins were completed today. I think they came out really well.
#26
Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:01 AM
Thanks for the update. I really like the changes. Keep them coming until the finish.
I think what you did here is really trick.
El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...
There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 9th Commandment.
"Speak not Evil of the absent for it is unjust." George Washington, Rule 89 of Civility and Decent Behavior.
Wheeling Gallery ----- E-Mail
Life Member: South Florida Jeep Club
#27
Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:36 AM
If you don't fight for the trails, there won't be any trails to fight for.
What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.
Zig Ziglar
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ....
John Stuart Mill
#28
Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:16 PM
Ian, I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect they are the same. The ones I initially purchased were bought at a speed shop and specifically used for exactly what I did (frame tie-ins). However, my friend who helped me out with this had a HUGE supply of some narrower poly bushings & we went with his since they fit better overall than the ones I already had.
#29
Posted 19 October 2007 - 12:47 PM
2004 Wrangler
#30
Posted 19 October 2007 - 04:38 PM
Jeepinjimmy, on Oct 19 2007, 12:47 PM, said:
It was a combination of what I've seen on other rigs as far as the geometry is concerned, my $0.02, and my friend Adam. I didn't do the tie-in welding myself.
After taking into consideration as to how the entire cage is tied together (in 40 places) I wanted to tie to the frame without doing a "hard mount".
I wanted the frame to still be allowed to flex naturally, the tub to flex, the body mounts to still be allowed to function, and the cage design to be all tied together but not totally rigid.