[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Been thinking about this for some time and I finally found the combination of parts that would give me the performance and appearance I was after and make full use of the LA kit's flex up front. I'll do the rear next but for now, here's what's planned and in the works...

Poly Performance TJ coil over kit
Fox 2.0 14" stroke monotube emulsion shocks, fully rebuildable
Metal Fusion TJ tube fenders builders kit

Here's a pic of how the Jeep sits now. It's using RE 5.5" springs and it had OME long travel shocks which worked for a 3.5" lift, but not long enough for 4.5"+ of LA lift. The long arm kit is a Toys by Troy alumiflex, 4 link up front and triangulated 3 link in the rear.



I'll also be removing the flares and flat fendering the front. The Poly Performance kit allows you to use a much longer shock or go with a long coil over conversion. This is done by cutting out the factory upper mounts and welding on new upper and lower mounts. The upper mount is tall enough that it goes through the inner fenders and into the engine compartment. The kit comes with matched limiting straps for your shocks and an upper shock tower brace that goes across the valve cover to tie the two shock mounts together. Here's a pic of the full kit and shocks (minus the hardware which is not in the pic).




The shock bodies are long enough now that if I installed them in the factory mounts, the shock would be almost fully compressed. Since I decided to tube the front fenders, and since the inner fenders also have to be cut some to allow the new shock towers to pass through, it made more sense to just remove the fenders.



I'll have more room to work on cutting/welding the new towers in place. Once I get the upper towers in place, I can start on trimming the inner fenders and then move on to installing the Metal Fusion tube fenders. At least that's how I think it will work right now. Here's a shot of the factory shock mount to be cut off. I haven't read the directions yet heh but the coil spring perch remains and the new shock tower just replaces the metal that makes the factory mount.



The next step is to read the directions for installing the new upper mounts and start cutting. The lower mounts just sit on top of the existing mounts and get welded into place. I think I'll do those after making a mess of the frame, get the new upper mounts on and then clean up the area. The upper mounts are gonna determine how much I end up trimming the inner fenders and how many new brackets I'll need to make to remount stuff like the cruise control control and what I think is the computer for the automatic.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Got a little more done today, getting the passenger side fender off took longer than expected. There wasn't much in the way of removing more than on the driver's side, but it would have been a lot easier if I had removed the battery pan and the little black box hidden below it that is bolted to the fender. That box made pulling out the fender and inner fender as one piece a PITA. Anyway, on to the progress....

I cut the shock tower according to the directions, but the brackets I have seem to be a redesign...there's more metal to the bracket than in the directions pictures. Here's the cut the directions said to make...No turning back now.



It could use a little grinding down but that's basically what they wanted. I put the driver's side bracket in place to test the fit and this is what it looked like...



The problem I was having was with the amount of factory shock bracket not close enough to the new bracket to get a good weld without having to fill in a lot of space. I was also fighting with the motor mount welded onto the top of the frame. This and a brake line was keeping the new bracket from lining up well. Since I have to make sure the cross brace that goes over the valve cover actually lines up on both sides, placement of the brackets looks like it has to be just about perfect. After messing with it for some time, probably longer than I should this is what I came up with....



I'm happier with this position and the factory metal touches the new bracket in a lot more places for welding. I also ground away about 3/16" of the bracket above the frame where it meets the motor mount bracket and welds. I want to tie the bracket into the frame at that point as well. I'm gonna have to be careful not to melt the brake line running behind the bracket when it comes time to start welding.

Good thing I started thinking about this before I tacked on the bracket... Once this is in place, painting the backside of the bracket is gonna be a PITA without painting everything around it from overspray so I cleaned up the backside of the brackets and put two coast of rustoleum on it.



Now to clean up the areas where the new bracket will be welded...



Got this far and then family/pizza came and it was time to call it a night. Tomorrow I'll tack it on and start the other side. I should have both sides tacked and the cross brace fitting properly...hopefully.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

I was able to finish up the welding and paint today. A few things came up during the test fit of everything put together before the welding. The brackets are really well constucted. Since just about every Jeep is different, these brackets still lined up very well. I was worried that the angles in the cross brace were gonna make one or both of the shock brackets be crossed up just a little to get a better fit with the brace. Nope, the brace and brackets all lined up pretty well. It was using a BFH on the remaining cut metal of the factory shock mounts to get some good weld points. Both sides needed persuasion in different areas. YMMV too. Here's a pic of the new shock brackets in place with the cross brace installed too.



The last step before making these babies permanent was to measure the eye-to-eye distance. The shocks have 14" of travel and shocks work the best when they ride at the middle of their travel. The shocks extended length is 35" eye-to-eye so subtract half of 14" (7 inches) from 35" and we get 28". That's the distance to shoot for between the new upper and lower shock mounts centerline. I currently have 6" up travel which will keep the shock from bottoming out during compression. This will give me 7" of drop. I measured the distance between the two holes for the limit straps and then measured the limit straps. Waaaaay too short. I'll have to exchange those. So after making each side have 28" eye-to-eye I tacked them in place, measured one more time and then finished up welding everything. Did a little clean up then hit the brackets with the rattle can.



Had to do a final test fit tonight and snap a pic with the shock installed 'cause that's the payoff right? Next is to trim the inner fenders so the fenders will go back on with the new mounts. I'm hoping the tube fender stuff gets here soon.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Things are moving right along still. I got done earlier than expected today which gave me some more time to clean up the rockers with a grinder and wire wheel and put a new coat of paint on them. I ran out of rustoleum though.

Anyway, on to the pics. I started with the passenger side trimming of the inner fender well because I knew from the looks of things, I wouldn't have to relocate anything that was bolted to the inner fender like the fuse/relay box. My air nibbler made quick work of the sheet metal. It's a little wider than I'd like but I can always cover up the openings with some more of that heavy rubber stuff...



The fender is being held in place by 2 bolts and the mud skirt is just sitting there. I still have to take the fenders back off to weld on the tubing for the flat fender part of this job. Here's what that same side looks like from above...



The kit came with some of that edge molding stuff but it's not enough for both sides so that's on my shopping list now next time I head to Advanced Auto. On the driver's side, I didn't have to relocate the computer but I did have to move the cruise control stuff over a little. I was able to reuse the same bracket, just had to bend it in a few new places to match up with the inner fender. I was also able to keep the trimming of the inner fender down on this side so from the view of the wheel well, there's not as much gap.



The fenders are sitting in place waiting for the tubes to arrive from Metal Fusion. Everything is mocked up and ready to be bolted back on when I'm done with the fenders.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

UPS delivers on federal holidays and the tube fender stuff arrived. I bought the builders kit which means the tubes are bent and notched, and the mounting plates are included but you havo to put it together and skin it. I like this concept because 1. it's cheap, only $175 for the kit versus about $400 for other fenders, and 2. 'cause it lets me skin it the way I want and customize it to my liking. Anyway, on to the pics...

The kit includes two mounting brackets, one for the firewall and the other for the grill support. Here they are both mounted and I've traced a circle on the plates where the tube needs to end up. There's roughly 1/2" of space running the length of the fender to hood (I set up the fender on the other side) so I set up the tube to give me 1/2" clearance along the length of the hood.



I've tacked the firewall side of the tube and I'm checking the front end to make sure it matches up inside the circle I traced and that the top of the fender will end up parallel to the ground. I just laid a level diagonally across the front bend.



Here's another shot of the same thing just before I take off the new fender frame again. I tacked on the front while still on the Jeep. It caught the tape on fire I put on the hood to keep the tube from scratching it up while I moved it around. That was fun.



Since the top piece is now attached to the mounting brackets, it's time to fit the next tube on. This can be done on the work bench since the tube is already notched for placement. Just keep the pieces squared up. Things like to move around a little from all the heat. And my welding tube needs a little refresher course. I put a call in to a buddy that's a much better welder than I am to give me a refresher before I try to weld up all the seams.



So, a couple more tacks in place and this is the basic frame for the new fenders.



Just another shot from a different angle.



After I build both sides, it's time to cut the fender to match the shape of the top tube. Then things get difficult. I'm going to try and MIG the factory sheet metal to the tube for the top of the fender. I'm gonna use a thicker gauge for skinning the triangle section on the side. I've been looking at LED lights and can't find anything I like so far to add to the fenders for marker and turn signals. Ah well.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

In case you're wondering, this write-up is being copied here per request since not ever JeepTalk member visits other Jeep boards that I post on.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Today was one of those days where you have to spend a lot of time to get a little progress. Trying to reuse the fender for the top of the new tube fender took a lot of patience. I can see why other products just weld on a new skin over the existing metal or have you cut it off entirely. I thought I'd be saving myself some time/money by cutting the factory fender down. I doubt I have done either. The good thing is I was able to get it to work and the fender will have a much nicer drip rail under the hood. This was one of the things I didn't like about aftermarket tube fenders...the drip rail area was two pieces of metal riveted together. Not much for preventing water from running in between. Anyway, on to the pics...



Getting to this point, where I was ready to sand down the edge of the top skin in preparation for welding took about 5 hours of work. I hope the second one goes faster 'cause this is the first time I've ever done a tube fender. There was a LOT of fitting, marking, removing, cutting/grinding, fitting. And that was after I cut the fender to its current shape. I still had some body hammers in the back of my tool box from when I was 18 and working at a body shop so I used one and rolled the edge of the sheet metal around the tube. After a little clean up and dust removal, I'll start tacking the fender into place. What's left on this side is to cut the sheet for the skin around the triangle area and get some sort of turn/marker light mounted.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

I finished welding the factory sheet metal onto the tubes and grinded down the welds for a smooth finish. The new "fender" expanded and shrunk from all the welding but after some drilling and a BFH, everything bolts back up to the factory holes. I made a plate out of 10 gauge for the triangle but it needs to be sand blasted first. Time to start the other side and do this all over again.

In the mean time, I'm waiting for my rear shocks to arrive. I made a template for some new lower shock brackets that will raise the shock mounts 3" up (from 23" to 20" between shock mount holes) to give me 7" of drop total in the rear with the new Skyjacker Platinums. Hopefully the fab shop will have these plasma cut and back to me by next weekend. Here's a pic of the monotubes...



Here's some pics of the fender welded as one and mounted.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Ok, back to today, 1/22. I'm half way through building the driver's side fender. Yesterday I put the tubes together and cut the fender to be mounted and welded onto the tube. Since the work is the same, I'd just be using up bandwidth to show basically the same pics from the first fender. I think the next set of pics will be when the fenders come back from paint and mounted and that should be the last post of my buildup. Hope you enjoyed it.

[Rollbar]

Excellent, fine job!
?
On the shock mount cross over bar, are you going to use a quick disconnect pin on the bolt it's self in case you want to unpin or just the regular bolt/nut combo?

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Rollbar, on Jan 22 2007, 06:09 PM, said:

Excellent, fine job!
?
On the shock mount cross over bar, are you going to use a quick disconnect pin on the bolt it's self in case you want to unpin or just the regular bolt/nut combo?

The cross brace, I believe, is only important when you use the bracket kit with coilover shocks. This is because the new coilover bracket then becomes weight bearing and the cross brace keeps the tops from leaning in or weakening the bracket. It seems that the top of the coilover would act as a lever arm and the highest weld points are only about half way up the bracket. With that said, (and it could all be completely inaccurate mind you) I really don't plan to use the cross brace since all the shocks have to do is dampen the springs. The springs and spring perches are still weight bearing on this jeep. thanks for the kind words.

[Jim B]

David,

Since I don't visit much of any other forums due to time, etc, I'm not up lately on what is really in the hype. I do want to say that is has been a while that I see a nice pic and detail install, but must important a different type of equipment install.

Poly Performance TJ coil over kit
Fox 2.0 14" stroke monotube emulsion shocks, fully rebuildable
Metal Fusion TJ tube fenders builders kit

Out of these 3 it was good to see the TJ coil over kit with the Metal Fusion builders kit.
After reading a good bit of your write up I really like the Performance Coil Over Kit. They made it simple enough so that a shade tree mechanic can tackle this on their own time. The geometry of this kit really look like they actually placed some though into the design.

From the pics I'm having trouble seeing where the bracket lays or goes behind the frame, can you get a few close shots of this and the support spots you welded for my tired eyes I like the way the thought out the strap connections. I like your minor details to cover the cut out metal so you don't slice your hand when working around the area. Btw, who needs stinking cruise control At first from the pics I though you would have problems with the stuff at the shocks (they looked a bit long) but I've see that you have addressed this.

Now to the fenders. I'm glad you are not as lazy as I am lately, you have giving me incentive to see if I can start on mine in a few weeks. I can see that you really had to have some patience on this, nice job on the gutter. Can you please explain a bit more on installation on the bottom sheet metal to the rear of the well. Do you feel that you gained a bit more clearance Could not see from the pics but are they installed with the 4 bolts and then the tube

There is one thing that worries me about all the tube fenders I've seen including this one. Could be wrong but when I have a gut feeling I usually do something about it. You need to prevent side to side movement somehow by having some sort of support to prevent movement to the front grill.

When you are wheeling on the rocks and the vehicle slips causing a deep sharp side hit to the tube fender it will more than likely tend to move the front grill to the opposite side. This could happen on a flop also. When I do mine I will be addressing this point and have an idea on how I will do this which is similar to another one that I saw that had this done. I was originally going to go another route to the front bumper but after my Grayrock damage I saw the possibilities of travel so I went back to the thinking board.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

The tube fenders definitely are "in the hype" right now. I wouldn't say that this particular coil over bracket kit is
very popular at the moment, but going to coilover shocks or air shocks, or rebuildable nitrogen charged shocks is
certainly popular. There's only a handful of conversion kits available right now that allow you to do so and each of them requires some amount of cutting/grinding/fabrication work.

I researched the Poly Performance kit among others and as you said, they put a lot of research and thought into the
product. Including mounts for limit straps is just one of those things where they went the extra mile on. I chose the
metal fusion tube fender builders kit because I wanted the personal satisfaction of assembling them myself. I guess the same goes for the shock bracket kit.

The fenders were definitely a learning experience. Using the Jeep as a jig was almost mandatory. There was no way you could just set all the tubes and plates on a workbench and start welding. Skinning the fenders using the factory sheet metal and 10 gauge sheet (for the triangle section) also got me a lot of time in with my MIG welder and adjusting the wire speed and voltage settings for a satisfactory weld result. I have some pics below to help clear up some of your questions. I don't have a good answer for you regarding a side hit to a tube fender and the grill movement. Obviously with a factory fender, it would crumble with such a hit. With the tube's strength, the type of hit you're taking about would try to move the entire fender over without tying the tubes into the front bumper. This could be done with forward facing tubes to the bumper's hoop. I would want these forward facing tubes to have some sort of flange with bolts so that I could remove my front bumper without having to cut the tube off.

Now onto the pics and some explanation of your questions. I wasn't able to get very good close ups with my camera and some of the welds you requested are actuall behind the shock body but I'll try to explain where I can. The first pic is a tie in at the lowest point in the bracket to the frame. The rest of the bracket sits behing the original shock tower. The trick is to cut the tower so that you get as much of the factory tower touching the new bracket as possible. If you scroll up to the pic where I've cleaned off the paint of the cut factory tower, you can get a better idea of where the rest of the welding is done. It's impossible to weld the bracket on from behind because the motor is in your way. The welds are just behind the shock body and above the coilspring perch where the new bracket touches the remainder of the factory shock tower.



To tie in the rear part of the inner fender well to the new tube, you still use the four bolts to hold the fender to the support behind it. You bend the rest of sheet metal in this area toward the tube. On Metal Fusion's site, they show mostly applications where people have attached tabs to the coping tube and bolted the inner fender on. I wanted a full attachment. I don't know why, just prefer it so I welded the inner fender to the tube. I called Metal Fusion about why the coping tube is behind the line of the inner fender support and their answer was to give more clearance in turns with big tires.



And although you didn't ask about it, this is what it looks like on the top side of the fender before I grind down the welds smooth. I also grind down the welds on the inner fender but I'm not as worried about the finished look down there as I am with a nice rounded finish on the top. On the other side, I put down at least 2 passes with the welder and grinding to make sure the fender-to-tube transition has enough metal to hold it for a long time and to widthstand a little extra sanding from the body shop so it doesn't burn through.



Now, stop thinking about sheeit and start building it.

[Jim B]

YJWhenUCanTJ, on Jan 24 2007, 08:42 PM, said:

I don't have a good answer for you regarding a side hit to a tube fender and the grill movement. Obviously with a factory fender, it would crumble with such a hit. With the tube's strength, the type of hit you're taking about would try to move the entire fender over without tying the tubes into the front bumper. This could be done with forward facing tubes to the bumper's hoop. I would want these forward facing tubes to have some sort of flange with bolts so that I could remove my front bumper without having to cut the tube off.

My original idea was to also tie in to the front bumper with a bushing so it would allow the body to flex from the frame tie in.

I don't like this idea any longer because if you run into something at the very corner and the hit is hard enough, it will cause the bumper to bend slightly. This will travel and cause more damage all around.

I'm planning to make my support and tie it in at the top of the spring tower with bushings. It seems like you might have a problem doing it this way because or your new modified taller towers. Where there is a will there is a way and I'm sure that even with the taller tower there would be a way to tie in. You have to make the tie in so as to not interfere with the tire especially at compression when it stuffs inside the well.

[Rollbar]

JimI, I expect a full write up with pictures this time :sneak: , right guy's,

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Right!

[Jim B]

You guys shall have your write up in due time rivet by rivet. Keep waiting.

In the mean time this thread is by no means done. I wan to see the finish product and check out the paint for any runs.

I'm enjoying what is going on in here.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Fenders are done! I finished the final fab work on the front end tonight. Fenders are going for final prep/paint Tuesday (tomorrow). Besides skinning the triangle with some 12 gauge, you'll see in the pics a flat bracket with 3 holes on the front of the fenders. Those are to hold my 3" LED light bars. The bars aren't that tall, only one LED high but wouldn't sit flush against the tube so I used some 12 gauge for a small, flush bracket. The center hole is drilled all the way through the tube so the wires can pass through and say out of sight. Picture quality sux. My camera doesn't take good pics at night using the flash. Or maybe it's me, who cares, the fenders are done.





The pics show more surface rust than when you just look at them in natural light. Prolly should wire wheel them tomorrow morn one more time even though the painter is gonna seal them.

[Jack H]

Those fenders look to me like they are rubbing on the tire. I think you need to mount then higher. Other then that Dave, great job.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

haha, yeah, they did end up a bit low.

they're just sitting on top of the tire because they don't stand up by themselves on the floor. They just fall over, bad fenders. Hopefully there'll be plenty of runs in the paint to make Jim happy again. He should just sell me his kit for $100 since he'll never get past the planning phase and onto the implementation phase.

[Jack H]

I know. He has been talking about his tube fenders for quite a while. His Jeep would look a lot better with some kind of front fenders on it.

[Jim B]

Thank you for all the kind words guys. The $100 seems to be very attractive but I'll give this a bit more thought. Hey, it took my 4 point harness with stock seat install 2 years in planning and now everyone is doing it. So I figure I'm right on track with my tubes.

Looking good Dave. I'm surprised you welded the side panel as this would be the area that would eventually get hit and dented but it's no biggy. If and when I start mine, I will use the removable panels, not so much for easy replacement on the hit, but I like having easy access to the inside. Is just a matter of preference.

I was looking a bit closer at the area of support over the weekend on my rig and on your picture concerning the side support issue on a side fender hit. I think the way I want to do it you will also be able to do the same even with your new shock towers if you one day choose to go this route.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Yeah, I thought about the removeable panel possibility. There's really nothing behind those panels I need access to. You can get to the bolts holding the fender to the bulkhead from underneath and from above. I also like it welded because it seals up the fender and keeps the water from getting back there. The thickness of the steel I used, and the small triangular section of it makes it one tough panel. The 12 gauge steel will take a lot more punishment than the 20 gauge or so sheet metal on top of the fender. The rocker panel skid is 1/4" plate and extends over most of it on the bottom part.

Today I just about finished up with this build. All I have left to do is bolt up the rocker panels and hook up the new LED running/turn signal lights. In figuring out which wires on the factory running/turn light would make the new lights work the same, the LED light doesn't suck enough current and the relay thinks I have a bulb out. So, until I can add some more resistance inline, the LEDs just turn on but don't blink. I know there's a write up on adding a resistor to the relay. Gonna do that and hope for the best. Jim, I'm sorry. The fenders have no paint runs. :(

Here's a sneak peak from this afternoon minus the rockers and lights connected but you can make out the amber LED light bar at the front of the fender. Tomorrow I should have a before/after photo and close up this write-up.



PS. I received the Skyjacker Platinum shocks for the rear this week. They are VERY nice. The piston rod is HUGE, almost 2x the thickness of the FOX shocks in front. The shocks are also adjustable by varying the pressure of the nitrogen like the Fox shocks up front. I'll have a write up coming when I get the new shock mounts for the rear back from the fab shop. These shocks come charged with 180psi, the Fox shocks up front come charged with 200psi but you can tell the valving is different in compression for both as it is much harder to compress the Skyjacker shocks than the fox shocks. I have no way to measure the rebound though. All in all, I think these shocks will do very well in the rear and be able to take a beating since the piston rod is so thick.

[Rollbar]

How bout a side shot?

How far out does the front tire stick out or the fender well ?

Very nice , maybe it will motivate Jim to brush off the dust on his & get to work, :sneak:

Rollbar

P.S. If U had a CJ :sneak: , U wouldn't have to worry bout them LED's, .

[Jim B]

Good show David! Looking good, I really like your idea and the looks of the signal marker.

Keep us updated with the wiring and the rest of it.

Btw, I want some close ups to check the paint runs, these far away shots don't cut it.

[Jack H]

David,
This is my write-up on LED tail-lights that includes modifing the relay. Hope it works for you, it worked for me.


"LED tail lights " found on page 2 of this catagory.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Thanks Jack! Doing my homework on it now. I hope it works. I've noticed that when you add rear LED lights, the blinker will go "90MPH" as you said. I can live with that but when you add LEDs in front as well, the blinkers go to a constant on. If the mod brings the blinker back to 90MPH I'll be happy. Thanks again for the links.

Seems adding inline resistance is NOT the way to go. Still reading/researching...

[Jack H]

I think what this mod does is set the rate at a specific rate no matter how many lights or kind of lights you use. Not sure. Let us know what you find out.

[YJWhenUCanTJ]

Finished things up yesterday (Saturday) and I'm pretty happy about how everything turned out. It seems like it took even longer than the 3+ weeks from start to finish but I am glad it's done. Time to move on to the next project soon. Here's how things look...

This pic is the business end of the fender and new shocks. Not a bad color match either. Props to Finish Master. The guy who mudded and painted the fenders also cleared the inner fender, looks sharp. I wasn't really going for the polished look underneath but I can't complain.



Here's another shot of inside the fender but includes a shot of the limit straps and where they're connected to. It's a 14" stroke shock and I have 7" up and 7" down (6" up really and then some squish factor because of the bumps to keep the shock from bottoming out). The straps measure about 6.5" longer than the distance between the mounts. That extra .5" will probably be taken up by stretch of the strap.



A close up of the finished fender and shock bracket going into the engine compartment.



Here's the LED light bar I'm using as the running/turn lights. The lights are flush mounted to a piece of 12 gauge I welded to the tube. The wiring passes through the tube.



A front shot.



And finally a comparison of before and after.

[Jim B]

Very nicely done in deed. I would have to look closely in person for the runs and gobs of weld but I guess these are of a non issue.

Now why don't you get your butt over here and help me do mine while I supervise!

Forgot to ask. Do you feel that you gained more room in the rear bottom of the well from stock fender