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OD,NDTires & Markings

#1 User is offline   TheMajor 

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 03:37 PM

Finished paint and tires yesterday
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#2 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 14 December 2005 - 03:58 PM

Hey Major,

I like it! :1thumb: :lol: :lol:

Now you've got to get rid of the square headlights and get the round kit. :lol:

What shade of OD did you use and where did you get the tires and rims :beer:

I know that you know that you are missing a few markings.
Go here: Rick Larsen Stencils

These are the decals but you can get the paint mask also, chick on the links on top. :ya:
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#3 User is offline   TheMajor 

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:25 PM

Stencils are next.
Tires $78 Each, I did not use any tubes.
http://www.coker.com/store/customer/produc...&cat=378&page=1
Paint $18.99 Gal. Oil based
http://www.armysurpl...com/default.asp

#4 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 08:35 PM

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeettttttttttttttt.

Hey, U think the CJ8 would look good like that w/the tires/paint or would it look funny having the pick up bed etc.

RollBar

P.S. I agree w/Jim on the headlight conversion, it would really set it off. :beer:
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#5 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 08:43 PM

Six questions: :beer:

1. How are those tires on wet pavement?

2. How is the wear of the tires, I know on my old Willy's they lasted a long time.

3. What is the availbility of the tires?

4. Do you need tubes for the tires?

5. Can anyone do a photo chop/cut w/a CJ8 painted in OD with and with out the stenciles?

6. After painting the JeEp would you add/paint a coat of clear on it to prevent rust etc.?

Thanks,
RollBar
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#6 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 09:16 PM

Here's some other paint Major,One coat coverage & chemical resistant

WAR PAINT

CARC
CHEMICAL AGENT RESISTANT COATING

ANTI CORROSION
FAST COVERAGE
HIGH BUILD
COLOR STABLE
ALL FEDERAL STANDARD COLORS
When a long lasting, durable finish is required,
use what the U.S. Government does!

Manufactured Exclusively for
Alfa Heaven by Sherwin Williams,
The Original Government Supplier.

MIL-C-53039A CARC (383)
$69.95 PER GALLON
$300.00 PER 5 GALLONS

***

MILITARY SPEC ENAMEL

HIGH BUILD
GOOD COLOR HOLDOUT
ONE COAT COVERAGE
ALL FEDERAL STANDARD COLORS
LEAD & CHROMATE FREE
Much Higher Quality than the off-brand Copies
currently on the market. Twice the Solids, covers 33% More.

MIL SPEC ENAMEL
$49.95 per GALLON
$200.00 per 5 GALLONS

***

KEM KROMIC PRIMER

MODIFIED ALKYD RESIN PRIMER $39.95

HIGH BUILD
CORROSION RESISTANT
SANDABLE
USED IN MARINE & USDA APPLICATIONS
REDDISH BROWN COLOR
$49.95 PER GALLON

Military Index Page

Alfa Heaven, Inc. Home Page
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#7 User is offline   Outlaw 

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 11:55 PM

Looks good Major.... Post more pics as you get it finished.... :2thumup:




John



:cool1:
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#8 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 15 December 2005 - 08:54 AM

Rollbar, on Dec 14 2005, 09:16 PM, said:

Here's some other paint Major,One coat coverage & chemical resistant

Rollbar, if I'm not mistaken this paint has more to do with modern (shades) up to date vehicles. Hummers, etc. If this is what you are looking for than let us know what you find out. I personally don't know of anyone that has used it.

Quote

1. How are those tires on wet pavement?

I try to look at the sky when I take out the Willys but the few times that the payment has been wet it has been real good, I'm more worry about the 4 wheel brake drums and stopping distance. :ya: But don't let the War Dept know about this. Maybe Major can tell us more since he is an every day Jeep.

Quote

2. How is the wear of the tires, I know on my old Willy's they lasted a long time.

As far as I know mine are doing pretty good.

Quote

3. What is the availability of the tires?

As far as I know Coker is the biggest (good price too), there are others but it's not something you pick up at the corner drug store.

Quote

4. Do you need tubes for the tires?

From the look of the picture looks lik Major has a one piece rim and was able to mount it tubeless. Tires are made with a good bead. I have a combat 2 piece rim from the days of war and I'm running a tube (call me pita originality type of thing). If you are going to drive on the payment a lot go with the one piece rims and tubeless.

Quote

5. Can anyone do a photo chop/cut w/a CJ8 painted in OD with and with out the stencils?

Good luck! :sneak: :gossip:

Quote

6. After painting the JeEp would you add/paint a coat of clear on it to prevent rust etc.?

Hmmm, I think if you primer & coat it pretty good you will not have this problem, maybe some paint experts on here can tell us. Or when you call the paint company as them and see what they say and let us know. Mine seems to be doing well but it's garaged and only drive it once a week with the kids and occasions. I will tell you that if you clear coat the paint job it will not look as good. Maybe Major can tell us a bit more about his paint job :2thumup:

One thing I've found out about OD paint is that you can get a spray can and touch up any part of the body and it will blend in like a pro job without spotting. :cool1:
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Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

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#9 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 03:58 PM

Thanks for the info Jim (except for #5 :sneak: ) i am really leaning towards this set up.

Question:

1. What stencils would I go w/on the CJ8 set up, WWII ????????? I would like to keep the 8 original but @ the same time make it look like a old military truck off of roids. :sneak:

2. What hood numbers would I use? I want to buy the package.

3. What size star or should I stay away from the star?

4. What is the biggest/tallest tire I can go w/using the Coker's, I have rear spring up front & I built my own rear springs (yJ-skyjackers, but don't tell anyone :2thumup: ) so I can tow if needed.

Thanks, I really need help w/this from the aspect of the Military look etc.

Thanks again,
RollBar
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#10 User is offline   TheMajor 

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 10:04 PM

Too many questions
Stencils-not historical because its not a historical vech.
0ne 20" star hood
3-6" stars, one each side, one rear.
each side hood U.S.A. under that, centered
932510
for 93=1993
25=Y
10=J
All fictional
Jeep name
"NellyBelle"

#11 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 10:19 PM

BIll,

1. Where did U get the rims from?
A. Do the rims come in 8" or 7.5"
B. What offset do you recomend?
C. Just for memory a CJ is 5.5 for the rims correct. ( it's been a long week :cool1: ).

Details SKU 587117
Weight 31.00 lbs
Size Full 700-15
Price: $ 78.00

2. I see the tire width is 7", will the cross section 7.80 fit on a 8" rim? hummmm, maybe not since the max streach is 7.80.... :2thumup:

Overall Diameter: 29.50

Cross Section: 7.80

Tread width 5.7

Load Capacity: 1720 @ 50 psi

3. Do they come any taller, I didn't see it on the site, probably not since it's a military tire. I'm got so many questions, :gossip:

I'm just getting all my facts so I can put a order together, the paint/decals etc. :ya:
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#12 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 10:24 PM

I like it, 84310= :cool1: I love it.

(Stencils-not historical because its not a historical vech.) but I wanted to make it look good.

thanks,
jim

P.S. 3 is also my birth month & 10 is the day, go figure. :2thumup:
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#13 User is offline   TheMajor 

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 11:12 PM

Rollbar, on Dec 15 2005, 09:19 PM, said:

BIll,

1. Where did U get the rims from?
A. Do the rims come in 8" or 7.5"
B. What offset do you recomend?
C. Just for memory a CJ is 5.5 for the rims correct. ( it's been a long week  :cool1: ).

Details SKU 587117
Weight 31.00 lbs
Size Full 700-15
Price: $ 78.00 

2. I see the tire width is 7", will the cross section 7.80 fit on a 8" rim? hummmm, maybe not since the max streach is 7.80.... :2thumup:

Overall Diameter: 29.50

Cross Section: 7.80

Tread width 5.7

Load Capacity: 1720 @ 50 psi

3. Do they come any taller, I didn't see it on the site, probably not since it's a military tire. I'm got so many questions,  :gossip:

I'm just getting all my facts so I can put a order together, the paint/decals etc.  :ya:

Rims are stock Jeep 15"X6" stamped next to the valve stem. Pattern for mine is 5 on 4.5 These 700X15 tires will not fit any rim that is wider.
Offset is stock.
Bolt pattern???????Don't know
All other NDCC tires from Coker are 16" Dia, and various widths
http://www.coker.com...ome.php?cat=378

#14 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 11:31 PM

Thanks Bill, :2thumup:.

I like this one, a little taller, maybe w/the rim height etc. it will gain me alittle more, I don't know it's late & I'm going to bed.

700-16 FIRESTONE MILITARY NDCC #18364

Construction: 6 ply nylon

Available January 2005

Overall Diameter: 30.50

Cross Section: 7.90

Tread width 5.8

Load Capacity: 1800 @ 45 psi

Load Range: C
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#15 User is offline   TheMajor 

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 12:27 AM

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#16 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 16 December 2005 - 02:49 PM

Rollbar, keep us posted if you find the 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern that you are looking for on this type of wheel. Just remember, if you go this route make sure you can clear everything before you take it off the road as most back spacing will be stock.

Major, these NDT tires are usually made to run with tubes even on a one piece rim, did you just go ahead and mount without a tube and it worked, or did you do something special :cool1:

Some info on tires:
900x16= 16" wheel, 35" tire, 10" wide.
700x15= 15" wheel, 29.5" tire, 7.8" wide.
700x16= 16" wheel, 31.6" tire, 7.6" wide.
If you order NDCC it is more of a round lug tire for the road vs the NDT which is made for offroad. Make sure when you order you know if it is either the 4 ply or 6 ply you want.

As the Major mentioned you guys don't have anything close to a WWII vehicle. You want to make it look nice having the military magnetism so let's no sweat the small stuff when it comes to the actual number markings.

Here is a bit of information for everyone in the event you want to get close and actually explain to people when they come and admire your new military look, they will be impressed with the knowledge of history that you give them, or you can just tell them to piss off. :lol:


Markings during WWII vehicles: (you can make a more modern marking using later times also)

Painted on Markings, no stick ons. Some people have magnetized the actual markings which they can take on and off the vehicle anytime they wish, most that do this are not original vehicles. I can understand this and it's better than nothing but painted on markings do look much better. If you are going to paint them use Napa Flat White, no duplicolor if you can find it. They discontinued this professional spray paint to go with the cheaper one and I purchased the last two cans in my area. Have the guy check the warehouse. Any quality flat white will do.

Hood numbers:
Most have 7 or 8 digits. US military Jeeps started with a number 2, some started with a W but these were early 1941, some have USMC or USN with a gray color instead of OD. Other markings that you see in the archives will be French or British not US.

An S marking to the side near the windshield on both driver and pass side determined that the vehicle was equipped with a radio suppression box underneath the dash. Take a look through this album for the different markings or do a search for WWII MB GPW pictures. Personal Military Album

Hood numbers were calculated at the factory according to frame numbers. I was able to estimate mine and double check with some archives to see how close I was with the estimator because I had an original frame number, engine number and date of delivery stamped with body serial. I would say that half usually go by the estimator which is pretty close to a formula used at the factory (so they say).

Do you have to follow this for your hood numbers, heck no! :devil: But here is a thought :rolleyes: if you want to at least stay within "correctness" (whatever that means). Start with a number 2 and don't go more than 7 or 8 digits in total for the hood numbers.

If you wish to use the WWII Hood number estimator for fun, click on the link below:
WWII Hood Number Estimator.

Make sure you have your frame serial and let's hope it's not too long. :shock: Enter MB for Willys and GPW for Ford (since you don't have either you will have to turn yourself into a kid and pretend). After you decide on your hood numbers don't forget to center U.S.A. on top of those numbers. Remember... this is your vehicle and do what makes you happy, you might want to enter your birthday as your frame number. :lol: Here is a tip, most frame numbers in the old days were 6 digits long. :amazed:

Note: As you read below you will understand why the bumper markings are much more important than the hood numbers. :ya:

Stars:
Two kinds... one without the circle and one with circle & star inside which means that it was an invasion oversea vehicle. Invasion larger Star was placed on the hood mostly with plain stars on the sides, some did have a small circle invasion on the sides, but very few.

Bumper markings:
Do a search on the archives and take a look at different markings to see what they meant. It was mostly unit, division, headquarters, recon, etc, and actual number of the jeeps assign to the division. Same markings that go on the front will go on the rear. Look at the pics.

For example:
7A820TD....Star......R25
7 (Armor sign,triangle) 820th Tank Destroyer Battalion. The numbers on the right stands for Recognizance Vehicle number 25 usually came equipped with radio & 30mm machine gun.

When people come over and ask me what the numbers mean I basically explain and go on to say that the Jeep was a recognizance vehicle to seek out German tanks, it would then report location to our US troops but mainly our own tank battalion. My markings indicate the actual unit coming in at the end of 1944 participating in the Battle of the Bulge. If you do a search on the 820th Tank Destroyer Battalion you will see what comes up. I have a little write up on all of this that I show people when I display the vehicle as it is properly and authentically correct down to the vehicle. The people that don't know about this era actually start looking at the Willys as they are reading, I usually get a nice thank for it which is all I'm looking for.

You can search WWII archives on the Internet, see what units did what and choose one of their markings if this is the route that one wishes to go. Have a small write up when people come and ask about the markings. Even though your vehicle will be incorrect you will still be honoring a small piece of history. Or you can do whatever is meaningful to you.

Naming your Jeep:
You don't have to but quite a few soldiers did in WWII, markings usually went on both sides on top of the rear wheel well. I got a few points for doing this.

Check these babies coming out of the factory.
Willys MB Jeeps Rolling out of the Factory During WWII. :good:
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#17 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 03:37 PM

Jim, Thanks for all the info, I'm gonna read up on it & try to pick something w/a pick up truck type of numbering since the Jeep is a kind of P/U, I think it would be best, I would just need to find the info. It would also be cool to mount a 30 or 50 cal. in the back of the bed. :sneak: :rolleyes:

I talked to Rob from highway tire & he said a stock CJ rim for my 7.90x16" tire would work fine. He also said that if I didn't go w/a tube to saturate the inside of the tire w/joy or dawn dishwashing soap, this will help prevent air leaks, put it on the bead also.

He told me to ask Coker Tire if they have rims etc. & if they come mounted.

I want to run a 30" tire on a 16" rim because I will have a 1'"BL & that might help fill the wheel well & I moved my rear CJ springs to the front & built a set of yJ Skyjacker springs for the rear. I hope this will not look funny.

I should have the Jeep finished by late march, hopefully on my B-day.

RollBar

P.S. Keep the info/ideas coming. Boy I wish I had my old willys. :cool1: :lol:
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#18 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 05:48 PM

Jim/Major/Sky, is there any small truck/Jeep that the military used that may come close to the CJ8?

I looked on MVP.org but they had the bg boyz on there. I thought there was a small truck type that was used but I can't remember. :cool1:

I can't remember what this looks like,,,Willys Truck, TM-10-1513 Manual.
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#19 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 16 December 2005 - 06:00 PM

Rollbar, on Dec 16 2005, 05:48 PM, said:

Jim/Major/Sky, is there any small truck/Jeep that the military used that may come close to the CJ8?

I would love to see you do this. :devil: You would be my hero! :amazed: :lol: Follow the Link.

1955 M170

Posted Image

Posted Image

Hey Major, I know you don't mind but I can ask Admin to split the thread up if you feel that Rollbar (once again) has :rolleyes: :lol: :cool1:
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Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

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#20 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 06:06 PM

THAT IS IT! yes something like that.

I need to get all the specs, not sure if the rag top would work but I could do the rest & even do the medical for www.4x4 rescue.org :sneak:

Sweet, give me more info homey,

RollBar
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#21 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 06:10 PM

Hi-jacked, did U say Hi-jacked, U can't say Hi-jacked on here, they will lock U up. :sneak: :lol: :cool1: Jim. :sneak:

RollBar :lol: I just got excited, :rolleyes:
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#22 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 11:33 PM

FYI, the War Dept.'s 5 star General said everything is a go, the mission is green light, confirmed. :lol: :cool1: . The CJ8 will now be converted somewhat into a 1955 M170 or close to it. I don't want to chop the passenger side of the tub since the 8's are rare. So it will be a mix but it should turn out o.k..

Maybe I can find a 55' grill, would it fit?

I have to get some more info/specs on the front fender light & other things etc. I will still have to keep the rear tail lights.

I will need to find a shifter for the auto that looks like a round stick or weld one from that era. I will twin stick the D-300 to try to get the look of the sticks in the cab.

I'm all open to ideas, even if there is another Jeep that's close to the M170, that way I won't be stopped for evey emergency on the road, :sneak: .

Thanks for all the help & sorry Major for the hi-jack but YOU started it. :sneak: :rolleyes:
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#23 User is offline   TheMajor 

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 11:55 PM

No Problem, its a great thread, Thanks Jim for the info, I learned a lot.
National Tire and Battery mounted the tires. They said no problem without the tubes. After a week I am going down to 40 PSI from the 50 PSI I had them air up to. Wanted the beads to seat .
Jim, I'm having problems with the paint. Leaves marks when touched in a lighter color. Being ultra drab I assume the "fines' will wear off and the paint will be more "touchable". What you think?

#24 User is offline   Jim B 

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 10:22 AM

TheMajor, on Dec 16 2005, 11:55 PM, said:

After a week I am going down to 40 PSI from the 50 PSI I had them air up to. Wanted the beads to seat .

Major, I run mine at 30psi with tube. Your ride is a bit heavier though. Please keep us updated how you fair out without the tubes.

Quote

Jim, I'm having problems with the paint. Leaves marks when touched in a lighter color. Being ultra drab I assume the "fines' will wear off and the paint will be more "touchable". What you think?


There are so many shades & quality of paint that it would be hard to troubleshoot. All OD leave a certain amount of prints or should I say oil mark, they normally wipe off or they become part of the paint job after a while which makes it unique. If you spray bomb spots you will find out the it also blends well, don't ask me why.

How heavy or smooth did you make the texture, hard to see from the pic :cool1: I myslef later found out the the under prime coat is really important because I can tell that it wears more on spots where they were not as heavy. I don't know how they do it now but I read that it was a heavy texture in the old days. On some of the real smooth parts I get spotting when it rains, just take a moist towel and wipe.
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#25 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 17 December 2005 - 11:17 AM

Rollbar, on Dec 16 2005, 11:33 PM, said:

FYI, the War Dept.'s 5 star General said everything is a go, the mission is green light, confirmed.  :ya:  :lol: .  The CJ8 will now be converted somewhat into a 1955 M170 or close to it.  :

Great to hear this news! :shock: You will not be my hero though until you come down and take me for a ride down the beach to pick up anyone that might have gotten hurt. :devil: FYI, I'm beginning to think that your War Dept knows much better what she want than you do. :rolleyes: I am glad that I contributed in the spending of your hard earned money and feel proud to feed your disease with ideas. I knew you would like those pics right of the bat.

Quote

I don't want to chop the passenger side of the tub since the 8's are rare. So it will be a mix but it should turn out o.k..

I would not hack it up either, keep it like it is and dress up the outside. With regards to the rag top. I know the place that made the one you see on the pic, they actually won an award for it. Let me spend more of your money by telling you that you should call Webee Webbing, tell them that you have a CJ8 and would like an OD canvas top made for it. See how much they want and let us know, you don't have to do it like the pic, just so it fits in canvas. See if they will do a few of the red cross (should be no problem) along with providing them the graphics for the 4x4 Rescue. :ya:

Quote

Maybe I can find a 55' grill, would it fit?

You can try and I might be able to provide you with some contacts but the question is... do you really need to. :amazed: :lol: Be prepare to pay my friend if you enter the restoration world. :ya:

Quote

I have to get some more info/specs on the front fender light & other things etc. I will still have to keep the rear tail lights.

Keep the lights and all the workings of the CJ8, just mark the outside proper. It will still look trick. :ya:

Quote

I will need to find a shifter for the auto that looks like a round stick or weld one from that era. I will twin stick the D-300 to try to get the look of the sticks in the cab.

That is the only part that I don't like but at worse, take the chrome out of it. :good:

Btw, let me remind you of our deal. After 7 years it belongs to me. :cool1: And I want pic from the beginning to end of every nut & bolt so start buying the lighter fluid so you can get good exposures.

PS. Stay with the Galespie brand of OD paint. We can talk about shades as you get ready.
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Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
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#26 User is offline   TheMajor 

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 02:43 PM

Here is a link about Olive Drab Paint
http://www.42fordgpw.com/od.html

#27 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 07:39 PM

Jim B, on Dec 17 2005, 10:22 AM, said:

TheMajor, on Dec 16 2005, 11:55 PM, said:

After a week I am going down to 40 PSI from the 50 PSI I had them air up to. Wanted the beads to seat .

Major, I run mine at 30psi with tube. Your ride is a bit heavier though. Please keep us updated how you fair out without the tubes.

Quote

Jim, I'm having problems with the paint. Leaves marks when touched in a lighter color. Being ultra drab I assume the "fines' will wear off and the paint will be more "touchable". What you think?


There are so many shades & quality of paint that it would be hard to troubleshoot. All OD leave a certain amount of prints or should I say oil mark, they normally wipe off or they become part of the paint job after a while which makes it unique. If you spray bomb spots you will find out the it also blends well, don't ask me why.

How heavy or smooth did you make the texture, hard to see from the pic :scratch: I myslef later found out the the under prime coat is really important because I can tell that it wears more on spots where they were not as heavy. I don't know how they do it now but I read that it was a heavy texture in the old days. On some of the real smooth parts I get spotting when it rains, just take a moist towel and wipe.

Jim, So a very good primer base is nessesary, correct. Would you say about 3 coats of base & then shoot the OD?

Hummmm.
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#28 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 07:57 PM

Excellent ideas, I could hardly sleep last night for real & yes the your War Room must have talked to the 5 star General. The 5 star General likes the old tough stuff, the General thinks it's got Ba--s.
Thanks for helping me spend my $$, once the General saw the M170 it was over, no more questions, I was told to get on the front lines & get it done, WOW. So I'm locked & loaded & ready to go. I'm gonna e-mail the rag top shop to see what the damage might be, but for now I'm gonna stick w/my 1/2 hard top (black), we will see.

So Since U R spending my $$ am I gonna make it a true M170 on the out side in regards to the Red Cross & numbering etc., Let me know money bags.

I need to get the relpica numbers/markings etc. so it will look good.......hummm.

I have to get a new windshield frame for the 8,,,,, hummmmmm,, would a 170 fit, but it might not w/the 1/2 top.........I'll look into it. 1984 CJ8 to a kind of 1955 M170. :amazed: :shock: :scratch:

For now I will keep the 360 in it (since it's already there) untill I rebuild the 258.

Thanks again for all U guy's help.

Signed,
Private Rollbar
Motor Pool tech. :sneak:

P.S. All my screen savers are of the M170 from that web site that the guy restored one from. I know I'm sick but I've had Jeeps all my life as DD. :wacko:
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#29 User is offline   TheMajor 

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 10:23 PM

Rollbar, Calm down, your gonna pee your pants!!! :scratch:

#30 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 10:33 PM

I already did, how did U know, :sneak: :scratch:
*MY CJ IS YOUR yJ's DADDY*

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