[Jim B]

Lately while winching myself and others I've noticed that the winch remote has been taking a tall lately with regards to getting snagged, connector being jammed and not plugged in correctly (won't mention names), routing of the cable, having the control dangle inside the cab or the cord itself getting in the way.

Looking at the electric diagram of the winch solenoid block I determined that it would not be too hard to wire up a toggle switch for the winch inside the cab and therefore eliminating my remote problem. I also wanted to make sure that doing any of this would not eliminate the original remote to the winch as it does have it's purpose. :thumbup: I wanted a master switch inside the cab that would activate the toggle switch (I did not want anyone inside looking at the pretty toggle switch, wondering and playing with it to see what it would do).

Called around including Radio Shack to locate some toggles switches, could not find the right kind. Started to search the web to see if anyone else had done this and I found a two articles with similar installs. One of them mentioned a company that was making the harness that included the master switch, toggle, wiring & instructions for $30.



The company is called Roadless Gear & the item was called: Dash Mounted Winch Control.
Heck, it was all there, avoiding me the hunt for parts so I ordered the kit.

When the kit arrived I noticed right away that the cord was too short (8 feet) for the way I wanted to route the cable ending at the toggle. I also noticed their master switch would do the job but the entire plate setup was too big to mount anywhere on the dash or console. I called Roadless with these concerns and advised that I would return the cord and master switch, keeping the toggle and plate which I had scratched taking the master switch off. They advised that it was not a problem and they gave me a $10 credit for the cord and master switch. They did mention that they will make any length of cord as long as they are advised prior to shipping.

Since I had a slot left on my custom dash switch panel (total of 6), I decided to use the only slot left to work the master switch (providing power to the toggle) and mount the toggle where it could be comfortable enough for me to reach on the console near the shifter. Went to Home Depot and purchased a 25 foot electrical extension cord (16 gauge x 3 wire) which is identical to the one provide with the Roadless Kit. Do not buy rubber wiring by the foot, it is more expensive and rubber does not do well after time inside a hot engine compartment. By the time all was said and done I had used 16 feet of cable.

BEFORE YOU START: Disconnect the battery terminals, there are A LOT of wires jammed into a small space in your winch solenoid pack, accidentally touching the wrong contacts could activate your winch or short out your electrical system. Check your work before reconnecting the battery.

WINCH SIDE CONNECTIONS

I started by first routing the main orange wire (housing the 3 main wires) through the grommet by the firewall, pulled enough through with a foot left over underneath the console to the toggle switch mounting point.



At this time I also drilled the toggle hole in the console.


You then route the rest of the orange cable in the engine compartment (to your liking) ending at the winch. Remove the cover from your solenoid pack and note the layout of your solenoids. Notice by the pics below that I routed the orange wire through the existing main lead wires of the winch.





Below is a diagram on how they are connected to the solenoids.


There are 4 separate solenoids. These are marked numbered 1-4 in the diagrams. The connections are labeled A-C in the diagrams.
A is the WHITE wire (power in control), B is the BLACK wire (power out control) and C is the GREEN wire (ground). The mounting points for these wires will always be the small posts of the solenoids.

Below is a pic of all 3 wires connected.


Newer model winches (with a 5 conductor remote plug) switch not only the positive, but also the ground wire for safety. Both are required to be activated at the switch for the system to either power in or power out. That way, if a solenoid were to go bad on you, the system would not activate inadvertently. Older model winches (with a 3 wire remote plug) did not switch the ground. If you have this type of winch, you can simply delete the green wire from your connections at the solenoid pack. Note that you will still need a ground at the switch plate under the dash so that your ARM LED will light up.

SWITCH PLATE CONNECTIONS

As you can see I used the stock flood light switches from Mopar. Pick these up at a junk yard.



The wiring for these particular switches are different, you will have to determine ground, 12v in, 12v out to toggle, & dimmer wire. I piggy backed the ground to the switch and ended at the toggle, ran the 12 volt out from the switch to the toggle. I also cut the Roadless face plate to make my own IN & OUT plate. You can see this below.



Below is a diagram on how it would be for a normal master switch (not the Mopar) and the back of the toggle.



The toggle switch has connections on the back numbered 1-6.

#1 & #3 are connected together by a pigtail. This is the ground side of the switch. They are connected together so that when you are using power in or power out, you still get a connection to ground either way. No connection is made when you are not actually using the winch. The pigtail is connected to the main green wire that connects to your solenoid pack.

#2 is the ground “input” and is connected to the ground connection of the Arm master switch.

#4 is the power out output, the white wire that goes to your solenoid pack.

#5 is the 12v positive input and is connected to the load connection of the Arm master switch.

#6 is the power in output, the black wire that goes to your solenoid pack.

The Arm master switch has connections on the back numbered 1-3.

#1 is 12v positive input. Connect to any power source under your dash. IMPORTANT: Do not use a 12v power in that it is ignition switch on. Use a continuous live 12v feed. The reason I say this is because you want to be able to winch yourself in the even that your engine shuts down with ignition off if necessary.

#2 is the load connection. Jumper wire going from here to #5 on the toggle switch.

#3 is the ground connection. This a pigtail that has one wire going from here to #2 on the toggle switch. The other wire goes to any good ground source under your dash. I connected to a ground strip that I had previously installed on my firewall.

Below you can see the finish master switch panel along with the finish toggle location with face plate.





This install is not that hard to do, the only time consuming part for me was trying to figure out the best way to run the wires and the actual time it took to do it & connecting. Go for it fellows!

Any good toggle switch, a nice arm switch with arm light right on the switch, a 25 foot electrical extension cord 16 gauge X 3, a few connectors, less than $30. It is not the only solution but..... darn hard to beat.

[JeepDew]

I think it would have been a lot easier if you just would have bought the ramsey wireless remote control that hang from you key chain just like an alarm.
just my two cents...,,,

here is a small write up......

[hiway]

Must be the $30 vs. $180. You go Jim!

[Jim B]

JeepDew, on May 6 2005, 05:20 PM, said:

I think it would have been a lot easier if you just would have bought the ramsey wireless remote control that hang from you key chain just like an alarm.

You bring up a good point along with another way to skin a cat.

1. Yes a bit easier, not a lot easier.
2. Don't trust wireless, never will, don't care how much testing. Seen a few go down, heard of more going down.
3. Loose your key or remote and what do you have.
4. Step or bang up your remote than what.
5. Run down the batteries while you are climbing a waterfall, than what.
6. I don't winch my vehicle if I'm not in it.
7. As Hiway put it, $30 vs big money.
8. I'll think of something else.
9. Nothing like a hard wired connection period.

My $.10

[Rollbar]

That's funny, I've never seen a dash like that in a real Jeep :lroll: what's that out of again a Suzuki. :sneak: :lroll:

Nice write up.

RollBar

P.S. I need my lighter back now that your done taking the pics.
P.S.S. Bring more fluid.

[Rambo]

looks good jim,

hey jeepdoo, you control your winch with a fighter toggle right?

[Sky6]

Good write-up Jim. After seeing the set-up in your Jeep last night, I think it is very innovative. I liked the reasoning for having a master switch away from the in/out toggle... kids will make you think that way. ha ha

joe

[Jim B]

rollbar, on May 6 2005, 06:21 PM, said:

P.S. I need my lighter back now that your done taking the pics.
P.S.S. Bring more fluid. 

Not a chance, you're not getting it back so get yourself another. I was at how well the zippo worked for taking these photos. I can now understand why you are the official photog for the PJC.

Glad some of you like the write up and as Sky6 mentioned.... kids will make you think different everytime you do an install.

I like to get some opinions with regards to the placement of the toggle switch... in other words... what other place besides the console would you have install it

[Rollbar]

You can install it on the stick. Get a hollow gear shaft/shifter & run the wire up through it & put a rocker switch in the top of the handle like the old Triump Spitfires or MG's. It was a electric over drive switch.

RollBar

P.S. If that fails you can mount it on the floor for a push button switch for a headlight dimmer, ON/OFF, & just enguage the IN/Out on the console.

[hiway]

:jump: Suzuki dash....now that's funny :sneak: :sneak: :jump: :sneak:
I don't care who ya are.....................................or whatcha drive :1grin:

[FrOeKk]

When we installed my winch, I put a toggle switch in the dashboard and love it!! It's great and makes life 10 times easier!!

[Jim B]

FrOeKk, on May 8 2005, 09:44 PM, said:

When we installed my winch, I put a toggle switch in the dashboard and love it!! It's great and makes life 10 times easier!! 

Did you make it a live toggle or is it of a master switch Post up a pic if you can so we can have other ideas.

[Tracy]

Good write up Jim! I have been looking at this too, but haven't come up with the mounting spot. I have 4 legged kids that would be standing on the toggle where you put it. I am thinking I may move my light switch that's in the flat spot on the dash to the windshield surround(jury is out on that one) I have my OX shifters near the steering column and that sorta leaves that area out I think. I have 2 spots left on the OEM switch area that could be pressed into service. I need to just sit in there awhile and figure it out.

The plates from the guy that was at the show look quite nice, wish the single switch was half of the double switch as far as size goes, they are big for a Jeep (Suzuki) dash though. (I had a Suzuki for 9 years, it's still running around town)

Chris any pix of yours?

[FrOeKk]

Jim B, on May 9 2005, 07:12 AM, said:

FrOeKk, on May 8 2005, 09:44 PM, said:

When we installed my winch, I put a toggle switch in the dashboard and love it!! It's great and makes life 10 times easier!! 

Did you make it a live toggle or is it of a master switch Post up a pic if you can so we can have other ideas.

It's a live toggle. I don't have any pics with me right now, but when I get back in town next week I'll get a few pics for you guys!!

[miamitj]

I had a similar setup on my YJ and did one like this about a month ago on a buddies Jeep.

I keep saying I will do it on the TJ but -- well but ...

[Jim B]

Tracy, on May 9 2005, 07:12 AM, said:

I have 4 legged kids that would be standing on the toggle where you put it.  I am thinking I may move my light switch that's in the flat spot on the dash to the windshield surround(jury is out on that one)  I have my OX shifters near the steering column and that sorta leaves that area out I think.  I have 2 spots left on the OEM switch area that could be pressed into service.  I need to just sit in there awhile and figure it out.

You have the spots available on the OEM switch panel. Use them for the master (much cleaner & better profile look), don't let them go to waste, that's less holes you'll be opening up. You stated you had two empty spots, use one for your light switch (get rid of the old switch) and the other for the master for the winch toggle. Use the spot that's there already for the light switch and mount your toggle there. If you post up a pic we can also get more of an idea.

Keep in mind that if you want to use the OEM switch you need to use the one for that was designated for the fog light. There will a side plastic guide line that you will have to sand down so they can slide into the docking holes. Next, you will have to make your own wiring harness plug unless you can cut a few out of a junkyard which is what I would do as they are a pain to make. I did the ARB right side like this a while back and it was a pain. Custom Switch Panel

Quote

The plates from the guy that was at the show look quite nice, wish the single switch was half of the double switch as far as size goes, they are big for a Jeep (Suzuki) dash though.

Yes the plates are quite big and that is one of the biggest drawbacks, they also have the arm light separate from the switch (while most are on the switch) which takes up more room. These panels would be nice for a CJ or YJ that have more metal in a plain dash rather than a car looking dash as in the TJs.

On another note: You can always have yourself a live toggle if it's pretty much out of the way keeping it from an inadvertent touch. I personally could not live with this though.

[Tracy]

I actually have 3 spots in the switch area. I forgot I threw the fog switch in there so I wouldn't lose it

So the only live switch in there is the OD switch. I can move that over to the side leaving 3 open spots. I was originally going to use the fog switch for my reverse lights but wanted more options for them so I ended up putting in a different switch over on the flat spot. I was not able to find a pigtail for the fog switch at the time and my soldering abilities are nil. I have the info for the hook up but finding a pigtail would still be the best and would probably take the longest, but worth a shot.



Here's a shot, shows the OEM switch area, I think I got room, the fog switch is just hangin out waiting for a use! :jump: Now I have some incentive......

[Safari Outfitter]

This is an expensive alternative to what has been posted so far, but it's pretty cool.

It is a winch and throttle control. However, you have to have cruise control to use this. At the flip of a switch, it turns your cruise control into a throttle control and a winch control.



Stu Olson's webpage with an installation write up.

[Jim B]

Safari Outfitter, on May 10 2005, 09:08 AM, said:

This is an expensive alternative to what has been posted so far, but it's pretty cool. 

It is a winch and throttle control.  However, you have to have cruise control to use this.  At the flip of a switch, it turns your cruise control into a throttle control and a winch control.

Safari, good find, Stu has always had excellent write ups. Good to know that there is still another way to skin a cat when it comes to in cab winch controls.

I briefly took a look at the write up and saw this picture at the manufacturer's web site.

Here are my own thoughts.
1. wiring is way more extensive. Granted, throttle, winch control plus detailed instructions.

2. I hope some of you that wheel in moderate or above trails can understand this. Think about using your throttle control at the wheel while the wheel is turning as you are trying to negotiate an obstacle. Same goes for when you are winching & trying to negotiate as the wheel is turning (even slightly) to be able to control the speed of the in and out.

I don't have the experience of using something like this so I could be wrong. I have tried to set my cruise on the GC while on a turn to the resume mode... while it was an easy task it was not the most comfortable one. Now imagine negotiating a throttle or a winching operation while the wheel turns more than a 3/4 turn.

Contacting the person that Stu did the install for and getting some feedback on the above might not be a bad idea for someone who might be considering taking on this route.

3. As already mentioned... cost.
4. Hard wired, this I like.

Personally I would get rid of the cruise control because I need the room under the hood. If you are traveling with your Jeep instead of towing I can see having it but plenty of people have done without it. Having a hand throttle at the shifter is best, better control with a manual transmission... for me anyway.

[JeepinIan]

As for the throttle, why not adapt an a/c soliniod for a carb'd vehicle to increase the RPM's with a toggle switch?

[Safari Outfitter]

I have the Kwans system.

You're right Jim, It is was easier to have the throttle control on the shifter for climbing. I've never used the winch function becuase it is easier to use the remote it one hand and steer with the other.

At the time when I bought it, it seemed like a really good idea. Also, it really is a pain to install. You need to be an electrical engineer to understand the directions they send. If it wasn't for Stu, I never would have gotten it installed.

[Tracy]

I looked at this earlier and just figured it was waaay over my head in the wiring department and I could never keep it staraight as far as how to use it and steer, so I have to "keep it simple stupid"

I am going to try to use the fog switch for power and try to find a toggle type switch that I can get to work in the OEM spot. On my list of "things to do" when I have the time, not sure when that will be.

[Jim B]

Tracy, on May 12 2005, 08:29 AM, said:

I am going to try to use the fog switch for power and try to find a toggle type switch that I can get to work in the OEM spot.

The ARB locker switch I believe fits in the stock oem dash switch panel. They are made by Carling Switches. The model name is V-Series: Contura II & III .

The problem is I don't know which amp/volt rating they are buying so you might want to give them a call. They also make toggle switches which a 20amp should be ok. After you get the info, post it here if you get a chance to give them a call. After you get the part number that you should buy, do a search on the Web under Carling Switches and quite a few web sites will sell them.

If you have a junkyard near by see if you can remove some of the oem fog switches, don't forget to cut (longest length it will allow) the harness loom plug out of it also.

You can also try to call Roadless (link on the first post) and just buy the toggle from them... I don't think this will fit on the oem switch panel though.

Btw, I am looking to carry extra oem fog light switches as spares since I denpend on 6 of them and want some insurance on the trail. I have some ARB switches (no part number on them, they are Carling) that I'm willing to trade which do not need the oem wire loom, regular connectors will do. I can use this if I have to but it would be easier with the oem switch since I have the entire panel already wired up with the stock loom.