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Hi Clear Steering

#1 User is offline   Tracy 

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 02:33 PM

Here's a couple of pictures of my Toys by Troy Hi Clear steering set up. It's pretty neat and the driving is great. There is no bumpsteer with it. It's made of Troys Alumi-flex material with one ton ends. It does require modification to the knuckle, sorry the picture is not that great.

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Here's a driveway shot.

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Some of you may have heard of the Alumi-flex tie rods(Challenge-flex also) that will do allot of bending before they break. This is the material that has memory. I think Tom is running one on his Rubi too.

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This shot shows the coil is unseated(another can of worms) and you can see the Anti Rock is not holding it up at all even on the middle setting. The shock is doing the limiting here. I may have to look into some that are a bit shorter.

What do we think here :gossip:
Red Beetle

#2 User is offline   Mud Crawler 

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 02:58 PM

That looks great. :jump: I was curious as to what type of modification is done to the knuckle? :gossip:

#3 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 25 June 2003 - 08:08 AM

MudCrawler,
It's hard to see but if you look close at the picture you will see that the draglink is connected to what is called a high steer arm and not the tie rod like on stock TJs.

This arm is welded, sometimes bolted to the knuckle. There are pros and cons to this as to whether it will rip from stress or not. Personally I don't think so, but I would question this setup if you throw on bigger heavier tire and do not upgrade the axle to have the bigger knuckle. Welding to the knuckle has to be perfect or it will rip the welded arm off the knuckle under stress. :cry:

Tracy,
Good stuff here, looks very beefy. :cool: With regards to the spring. From the looks of things the shock is probably too long along with the pin eliminators taking up another inch or so. You should probably have around a 26" shock depending on the length of that spring.

A simple solution without buying new shocks is to have some type of limiting device or strap to stop the spring from unseating and allowing you to have downward pressure while wheeling. If you are going to keep this shock, you should remove the front spring and check your compression till it hits the bump stop to make sure that your shock does not bottom out. :gossip:
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El Niņo
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#4 User is offline   Tracy 

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 02:56 PM

OK, I should do a bit more testing and see about possibly a shorter shock. Are there places that make a strap? Where do these go? The pin bar eliminators do add length on the measurement of the extended shock, so shorter may be better. Is it OK to let the shocks be a limiting factor? I guess if you can't maintain pressure on the wheel you can't get traction, so having the spring unseat is not going to help you, right?

So looking at the shock pix, check out the Anti Rock. What's the deal here? The Anti Rock doesn't seem to be stopping anything like say stock set up would. I am unseating the coil, the Anti Rock is in the middle and actually looks like it could be in the first hole and nothing would be different. :) I am connected in front but I have a lot of travel. So what does the Anti Rock really do ? Does it just balance you or what? :tongue1: What happens when you put it in a looser or tighter setting?
Say in this case? I've only used it off road once, it felt fine, or rather I didn't feel it, I had all the travel I needed for sure. :huh:

Sorry fellas, some of this stuff is new to me. Help is good :D
Thanks
Red Beetle

#5 User is offline   Mud Crawler 

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 05:36 PM

Thanks Jim, I was interested in seeing if it was the weld on type or the entire knucle that was swapped out. I think tera makes the one that you swap out the old knuckle with theirs, this is $$$$$.

I've got a couple of ideas I'm trying to kick around for my YJ. I'm at the point now where I'm either going to make some major mods to it or I will buy me an older TJ and play with that. Ideally I'd like to get an older TJ with a 4.0 and a 44. Gotta love the fuel injection I've had it with carbs. I might even put up a poll with 2 different scenarios and see which one the people like more. If I found the right TJ I'd buy it today. :jump:

#6 User is offline   JeepinIan 

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 09:43 PM

Tracy, do not let the shock be the limiting factor. damage to the shock could result. Get yourself a set of limiting straps to stop the droop from going too far.
Ian Stewart

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#7 User is offline   Hellbender 

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 02:58 PM

Limiting straps are an easy but very poor (PITA) method to limit wheel travel.

Hate to stir the pot here on the Anti-rock....................

BUT, You can use the AR as a limiter, both by adjusting the length (proper way) on the links and changing the hole location .

BEFORE you do any of the following, check your shock length for bottoming out (proper bumpstop length).

The way to adjust the link length is as follows............

First, Find out which hole in the AR you like the "feel" of the vehicle, most use the softest (rearmost hole) setting, but if your vehicle is very top heavy, or you are on the road more, you may like it firmer. I'll use the softest setting for the following discussion .

Remove the AR links complete with the hiems

Jack up your vehicle so both front wheels are hanging off the ground (jackstands under the frame)

Note the amount your springs are unseated, jack up the AXLE (even on both sides), so your springs are just barely seated properly (on both sides)

Now, push the AR arms down until they are pointed directly at the center of the lower link hole on the axle. Use a straightedge held in the center of the holes in the AR arms to check.

Now measure the exact distance between the holes where the link will mount.

Make your Link (center to center) this exact length (may have to cut some threads off both ends or in extreme cases, cut the link in two, sleeve, and weld) and reinstall

TA DA! with the arms and links straight, axle can droop no more.

Adjust your rear swaybar links (you did make some adjustable rear links, like AR links, didn't you? :) ) the same way.

In the real world, while wheeling, When one wheel is totally drooped ( Like your pic) the other side is stuffed (except in rare, completely high centered instances or jumping ) and the AR will act as a progressive damper until the links and arms get straight, then it will halt travel.

No straps to wear out, get tangled up, burn on the exhaust, catch brush, etc., etc., etc.

Just my .02 (well, maybe $1) to add, for thought.

HB

#8 User is offline   Tracy 

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 04:59 PM

Interesting Brad,

OK, I do need to check the shocks at total compression to see if they are bottoming out early. When I took that picture of the coil unseating I noticed the AR in that position and had sorta the same idea. What if I can go forward a couple of holes and get the same result? as a limiter?

I do have the rear links :) with the heims, they are set so the coil is just coming loose. Again, I need to check and see if the shock is too long there to.

I'm learning something here :amazed:

Now, how does the AR make things softer or fimer, mine is in the middle, due to a limitation of the steering set up this is as loose as it will go, from what I can tell I have more than enough droop, I am allowing the axle to drop as far as the coil can go, it doesn't need to go farther, right? :tongue1:
Red Beetle

#9 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 26 June 2003 - 06:34 PM

HB,
Good explanation on how to adjust the front AR. I have a feeling that the way they installed this particular lift for Tracy that she might actually be very close to the front holes. Tracy, once you adjust these links you might actually might want to cut some excess of the AR arm to keep the arm getting so close to your other stuff. Tracy, it really does not need to go further, don't forget to check your compression.

I wish I could have been able to adjust my rear axle AR this way. :amazed: Technically the bar tube is supposed to go almost to the rear bumper between the gas tank and the body. Since I have pushed my gas tank all the way up to the cross member, I did not have any room. I had to move forward the placement of the tube causing the arm connection point to move forward of the upper spring perch, forward connection point at the axle.

As the arm swings down it would hit the spring, I even put a dog leg bend on it, but is was not enough clear to be able to use it as a limiting factor for my rear axle. :gossip: Hence my limiting straps on the rear.

Any ideas on this HB :tongue1:? The only think I can think of is to get a longer custom rod for the rear made to clear the springs. This would run into more $$$ yet :greedy:. My alternative was the straps, I agree with you on the limiting straps being a pain... when you have to, you have to. :) You will see some pics below of what I mean.

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El Niņo
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Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

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#10 User is offline   Hellbender 

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 05:35 PM

Tracy,
as you move the link to the more frontward (front of jeep) holes the AR gets stiffer and stiffer (more resistant to body lean) BUT, also limits articulation more and more. I would drive the jeep over a moderately rough course (note the "feel" of the body lean carefully) and then try the same course with the AR on different holes. Try all the way forward and all the way rearward, then see which you like the best (or in the middle somewhere), THEN cut the links as described above.


Jim,

I would weld a "shelf" (2"x2"x5/16" thick angle iron or something similar, depending on what the arm looks like, fully drooped) on the frame for the AR arm to bump into as it goes down, setting the height as described above.

Could you get a pic of the arm fully drooped, so I could give a more detailed recco?

HB

#11 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 28 June 2003 - 08:19 AM

HB,

Maybe it's old age but I'm having a bit of difficulty trying to imagine what you mean with regards to the welded angle iron to the frame. :disguise: If I get correctly what you mean it would interfere on the up swing.

I'll see if I have some time next week to get some pics, I'll disconnect the rear links and swing the arms down to show where they hit. The way they are set up now on full droop, they do not go pass the perch. Thanks. :euro:
Posted Image Posted Image
El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 9th Commandment.
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#12 User is offline   Hellbender 

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 04:36 PM

Jim, You don't need to change your links or arms at all.

Put the piece of angle here (if your arms are at full droop in this pic), double line at the top is the "shelf"
You could also turn the angle over (leave the shelf in the same place) and weld it to the frame under the arm, if there's not enough room where I've got it.
Just so the "shelf" is in the right spot.
Might want to put a piece of hard poly or rubber on top if you don't want an occasional "clack" when it hits (rarely, I wouldn't worry about it).

Don't weld on the corners of the frame anywhere, ever, only on the flats.

Posted Image

#13 User is offline   Jim B 

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 04:55 PM

HB,

Thanks, now I get what you mean. :amazed: The angle iron will act as a stop, great idea. :tongue1: I think that the arm at full droop is very close to the perch and I might need to figure something out. :)

Btw, you need to house the pic on the net first and when you click on img it will ask you to enter the web address of the pic.
Posted Image Posted Image
El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 9th Commandment.
"Speak not Evil of the absent for it is unjust." George Washington, Rule 89 of Civility and Decent Behavior.
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#14 User is offline   Hellbender 

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 07:07 PM

Jim,

Use maybe a bigger pc. of angle (maybe a 2x4 or 2x6, 4 or 6" side going UP) and you could even drop the "shelf" below the level of the frame.


On the pic, I did that on my server (my FTP page) but it didn't like it for some reason when I drew on it.
HB

#15 User is offline   Stu Olson 

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 10:12 PM

Tracy,

In regards to the settings on your anti-rock, the documentation from Currie warns against using the stiffest two settings for off-road. They state they are for on-road use only.

I have seen TJ owners ruin a set of swaybar discos (bend them in half) because they did some wheelin' and didn't feel like disconnecting them. The off-road induced flex and the VERY still stock sway bar did the damage. I am guessing that the links may fail on the Currie if you use those two closest holes....the leverage to twist the bar will be poor and as such, the links will take the brunt of the force (instead of the bar) if you start flexing it hard. This is only my opinion, but I believe it makes sense.

#16 User is offline   Tracy 

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  Posted 21 July 2003 - 01:06 PM

Hi Stu,
Thanks for stopping by. Thanks for the info on the AR. I haven't done anything with it yet. I did tighten it up on the road to see what kind of difference I would feel. Have you heard of any one running it different lengths on the sides. Our steering is limited on the one side but not on the other. I know Troy said something about disco ing the pass side. Or as he likes to do , disco the whole thing. :2thumup: I want to use it though. Any ideas here :

Tracy
Red Beetle

#17 User is offline   Stu Olson 

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 02:35 PM

I posted this on another forum, but I'll put it here as well since you asked.

Yes, you can run the AR in different holes. I spoke with a mechanical engineering buddy about this and he said that since the AR free floats in those nylon blocks and the center is NOT secured, it will work just fine. I will be setting my driver's side to the softest setting before hitting the next trail. Although it will not be as soft as I use to run, it will be better than how it is now. :gossip:

#18 User is offline   John 

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 04:49 PM

Stu: I am getting the currie A/R. I thought in reading posts at JU that many just set it at the #2 position and just leave it there? I will be most interested in learning what is best. Fully loaded my jeep is now a fat hog on the highway and I am taking a long trip out West in Sept. What would be a safe setting? Then for offroading what is best for my overweight pig? John

#19 User is offline   Stu Olson 

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 05:35 PM

I have no intention of switching mine back and forth (between highway and off-road). On my previous lift, I ran it in the #1 setting (softest) all the time. On my previous run with the new lift, I had it on #3. It was difficult for me to tell if it was the new springs (more than likely a different spring rate since they were from a different vendor) or the AR sitting in #3 that made the front end feel stiffer. So, I now have moved the driver side to #1 and have left the passenger side in #3 (must do because of clearance issues). So, that is the softest I can get mine and that is where it will be (unless some fab changes are made to the existing setup).

As for where you should put yours....I can't tell you that. The settings are highly personal in nature....what feels tight for me might be loose for you (or just the opposite). Your springs are not the same as mine either....so my advice should be mostly treated as generic in nature. Put it in #2 and give it a try....and you can decide how it handles on the highway. I will venture a guess and say that if the TJ is heavy, you will want a higher numbered setting for the highway....to reduce body roll. You might find that for your long trip, you might want to jack it up to #4 or #5 and then loosen it up once you get where you are wheelin'. For me, that would be too much hassle as I am usually an hour or so from good wheelin' and I just don't rack up that many highway miles.

#20 User is offline   John 

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 05:51 AM

Thanks Stu, I presume from your post its a pain to adjust the setting?? What all is involved? I expect to get my set near the end of next week. Bought it through Jason. I have the OME HD springs. John

#21 User is offline   Stu Olson 

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 08:48 PM

John,

It is not so much that it is a pain to adjust, its just that I got rid of the quick discos so I didn't have to mess with any sway bar adjustments. Once I find the appropriate settings for my current lift, the AntiRock will stay at that position. A couple of wrenches is all that is needed to adjust it and it takes less than 5 minutes (which includes a short break in the middle).

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