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Paint Applications 101 ask your paint questions here

#1 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:57 PM

ok gang , welcome to paint application 101 with skinner .

in this write up im gonna touch base on paint applications , procedures , products and tips .

your prep work .
your prep work is the base of your finish . your finish will look no better then your surface preperation . im gonna walk you through a recent paint job i did on a jeep .

first i started by washing down my jeep body with ( T0015 ) surface prep wash . works great for removing contaminents then i follow up with a damp wet rag and allow to air dry .
next i begin my sanding work the types of paper used depends on the surface being sanded . i like to begin with (280 grit ) followed by ( 320 grit ) . now that my surface has been sanded i am ready to apply the primer coat . depending on the type of primer you are using always follow mixing instructions .

now after sanding is complete i wipe the surface down with water allow to air dry then tack the surface clean . in this application i am using a white eurathane primer coat .
after mixing i will allow the primer to set on the table while i get my gun preped for the application usually takes about 10 -15 minutes . is best to allow the primer to mix well with it components and reducer .
after suiting up i am using my binks 2001 gun for this application with my 2.0 a.k.a. 256 tip. which allows a full flow of fluid at 40 psi fed to the pot and 10 psi at the gun tip .
starting at the right fender always working from bottom up - ( never top down ) i begin my 1st pass . working my way down the drivers side of the jeep and finishing at the hood .
now my hand stays between 13-16 inches off the surface at all times with my fan spread set at 3" at the tip with a full 10 -12inch spread .which allows me to cover more area at 1 time .
after allowing a 15 minute flash in between coats i come back and apply my 2nd finish coat . at this point i increase the fluid flow just a touch and lower my air pressue to the pot by 10psi .
because i want a heavier coat at this point so i move my hand closer to the surface by 4 inches . following steps above i work from bottom to top and finishing up on hood .
next . after allowing primer to cure fully i begin the final sand work by wet sanding the primer coat at this point with 400 wet dry paper
(Tip:) wet sanding your primer coat by hand will always produce a smoother finish then dry sanding and doesnt really take that much effort . also while your sanding your actually cleaning the surface at the same time .
now -- my jeep is primed , wet sanded and washed down, recovered and ready for the finish .
im gonna be using a base-coat clear coat finish on my rig .
following the same mixing procedure as the primer coat i allow the paint to set on the table after i mix it for the 10-15 minutes .
now im ready to paint . i do 1 final pass of cleaning , i use the T115 again and wipe the surface down followed by a wet rag and dry rag
(Tip:) always follow up with a dry rag at this point to eliminate any rags mark .
now i do 1 final tack rag pass and im ready to go .
( tip :2thumup: i have changed my gun tip nozzle to 1.7 tip a.k.a.165 tip
starting at the drivers side front fender i begin with the top to bottom passes moving down the side of the jeep following the coutours of the body i apply my 1st pass of top coat . now since this type of paint requires clear to make it glossy it goes on flat so i layer it on in passes like mowing the lawn .
once i have applied my base i allow to flash 15 minutes between coats and the last coat i allow to flash a full half hour .
now on to the clear finish .
( tip:) with clear top coats you can add things like metal flakes and effects if you wish to enhance your finish . but to spray metal flake you will have to use a larger tip and higher air pressure . to do my standard clear application i am using my 1.7mm tip on the gun
following the same pattern i painted i apply the clear starting from top to bottom i follow through with the clear in an even pattern not trying to cover so much at 1 time . clear should be applied in 3 coats aprox. 2 mils thick at higher air psi then paint i like about 15-20 psi at the gun tip at this point and 45-60 psi at the gun feed note:im using a pressure pot ......and while applying the clear i keep my hand off the surface atleast 13 inches at all times .
( tip:) while paint and clear applications some painters like the crisscross method which works great for full even coverage but this method should be left to the pros
because it is very easy to over load and run the clear .....( hence the feel i spoke about on the other tread . )
some issues you may encounter when applying clear are as follows :
clear to dry ...Cause :your hand is to far away solution : adjust your air flow lower raise your fluid out put and move a bit closer and slow down some .
clear has orange peel effect .( very common )...cause : you are applying the clear to heavy and your air is to low solution : adjust your air higher and lower your fluid out put .
now my job is complete and i allow clear to cure fully over night .

now some more tips .
a. you can never clean your surface to much ( more is better )
b. never lean into your job per-say back off a bit move that hand back .
c. never-ever try to cover in the first coat you will run the paint every time .
d.( lacquer -thinner ) is NOT a surface cleaner !!! it is exactly what the name implies it is a paint thinner and wiping your paint with it thinking you are cleaning ,you are really weakining your base .
e. resperators are your friends USE THEM .
f. do not get impatient !! take your time . time is good
most people on the tread will probably never experience the industrial use products i have used as a painter and detailer of 20 + years and i have used so many different products and tips etc .. it is impossible to address them all here
so i hope the above walk through so to speak helps out a bit ..................and i am open to feild any questions you may have or would like me to address about your paint projects .
i am also very exp in body repairs so i can feild questions about products and tips there also .

#2 User is offline   TranyDoctor 

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 09:09 PM

will this technique work for solids and metallics, gun and tip?

#3 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 04:00 AM

View PostTranyDoctor, on Mar 9 2009, 10:09 PM, said:

will this technique work for solids and metallics, gun and tip?

well for me i like to change my tips for the prefered application of each product . smaller tip for finer material applications and larger tips for epoxy primers high builds etc.
now with metallics and clear that is a larger tip application due to the metal flake . air higher air pressure the problem many people will face with metallics ic ( you ) have ZERO control of the flake itself just the clear its best that the applicator keep an even wet coat and let the flake flow properly.

#4 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 05:56 AM

View PostSkinner1, on Mar 10 2009, 04:00 AM, said:

well for me i like to change my tips for the prefered application of each product . smaller tip for finer material applications and larger tips for epoxy primers high builds etc.
now with metallics and clear that is a larger tip application due to the metal flake . air higher air pressure the problem many people will face with metallics ic ( you ) have ZERO control of the flake itself just the clear its best that the applicator keep an even wet coat and let the flake flow properly.

using a smaller tip for metallic applications will cause clogging .

#5 User is offline   SuperDave1984 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 11:34 AM

When using base/clear do you want to try to cover with the color just like you would if you were not using a clear? Or just cover enough to have even color? With hardened enamel you would apply at least one more coat after complete, even coverage correct? What about color sanding between the base and the clear? Bad idea or good idea?

#6 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 11:46 AM

View Postsuperdave1984, on Mar 10 2009, 11:34 AM, said:

When using base/clear do you want to try to cover with the color just like you would if you were not using a clear? Or just cover enough to have even color? With hardened enamel you would apply at least one more coat after complete, even coverage correct? What about color sanding between the base and the clear? Bad idea or good idea?

the base coat is very tricky because it is not glossy and fools many people because they are tricked into beleiving that since its flat looking its not enough
when applying base coat you want to lay it on in even coats but make sure you do get proper coverage because you will see light spots when you apply the clear dont try to pound it on take your time and keep 12-15 inches off the surface .

you do not sand the base coat before the application of the clear .it is already formulated to accept the clear .so yes ( Bad idea ) :devilgrin:

#7 User is offline   SuperDave1984 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 01:41 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. Otherwise I would have made a pretty expensive error. I am planning some basic stripes on my truck and thought about color sanding where the different colors meet to make it smooth. Now I know not to do that. I do know to paint the top first, then the next down, etc so as to minimize the ridge. Here's a crude MS Paint of what I want the truck to look like. Sort of.
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So I would paint the entire truck white, then mask and paint the red, then mask and paint the black correct?

#8 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 01:50 PM

here is a stripe prep tip for ya :

when laying out your stripe use 3m scotch fine line tape its on a roll and it leaves a very fine line .

#9 User is offline   SoilantGreen 

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 10:44 AM

I have two comments.

1) Watch your spray suit and hoses when you lean in to paint the middle parts of the vehicle. Many a paint job has been ruined by dragging the hose or letting your saggy, baggy shoot suit get into the wet paint.

2) "Lacquer Thinner" isn't. Any reducer good enough to thin real lacquer generally says so on the can and is very expensive. Generic lacquer thinner usually costs under ten dollars a gallon, is full of water and recycled solvents, and isn't good for anything other than cleaning equipment after use. Keep it around for flushing out your pressure pots, hoses, and guns, but please don't ever wipe down a vehicle with a lacquer thinner-soaked rag and tell me it's clean enough to paint. I know you touched on this, but I just wanted to make it clearer.
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#10 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 01:07 PM

this is so very very true , i have seen a few people on the tread mention they wiped down with lacquer thinner this is a #1 :2thumup: lacquer thinner is for nothing more then paint thinning use and clean up after period . so dont do it .

the first time i experienced lacquer thinner years and years ago when i was 14 the stuff was so pure it would burn the flesh off ya pure thinner no additives .

as for hoses and stuff ....i use the over the shoulder down the body method most painters do and hold the feed line behind the body with the free hand while leaning in and over your paint project .

#11 User is offline   SoilantGreen 

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:11 AM

You'd be amazed at how many painters don't know to hold the hoses over their shoulder and with their other hand.
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#12 User is offline   SuperDave1984 

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 02:44 PM

What needs to be done to a chrome bumper to prep it for paint? I hate chrome.

#13 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 02:52 PM

View Postsuperdave1984, on Mar 19 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

What needs to be done to a chrome bumper to prep it for paint? I hate chrome.

lol toss it in the garbage and buy another 1 , there is not a paint product on the market today :naughty: that will adhere to chrome . you might find something for the short term but it will peel count on that .

reason : true chrome is a non abrasive ,non pouris surface .

#14 User is offline   92SquareEye 

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 03:52 PM

sandblast the chrome off...paint it. :naughty:

-dave

#15 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 04:11 PM

yeah that can be done but the down side to that process is if you dont have a serious blaster it aint worth the aggravation . usually chrome plating is a good 3-5 mils thick beleive me you will tire of that blasting buissness real fast .

sure if its a real killer bumper or something worth holding onto and puttin the time into ..if not trade it ,pitch it ,and get another .

#16 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 08:56 PM

?-To clean the vehicle what would be the best thing to use w/out spending 1k to do it :rof:

I would like to clean the 8 so I can shoot it (see the build in the vintage forum, I sanded it and need to re-sand) this week w/the red oxide. It's been a looooooooonnnng time since I painted. I need to pick up some fish eye as well. I know I have to tack it off b-4 I shoot or was that in the old days.

Thanks,

Link to post 107
http://jeeptalk.net/index.php?showtopic=44...mp;#entry115822

I'm calling the U-Pol company tomorrow for their tintable raptor bed-liner spray. Hopefully I can use the Gillespie OD to tint, I'm gonna ask.
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#17 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:27 AM

there are to products i would recommend for your procedure .

1. denatured alcohol = so so

2. T115 prep- solvent = excellent

#18 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:59 PM

Where would one get the T115?

#19 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 10:11 PM

1 lives in Citrus county for now.

P.S. After I prime the whole vehicle I should WET sand it correct. Been a long time.

P.S.S. How many OZ of reducer to a Qt or should I look on the label :)

#20 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 05:16 AM

1. let me find out where you can get it in your area .

2. yes if you wet sand the primer with 400 W/D it will give you a nicer finish .

3. always follow your label instructions .only experienced painters should mix paint by eye .

#21 User is offline   soflmuddin 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:15 AM

Quote

only experienced painters should mix paint by eye .


experienced? you must first do it to get experience.

skinner i camouflaged one of the toys recently. i have in the past used rattle can clear to coat over the camo. works good for about 1-2 years then the clear wears away. is there a safe clear to put over spray paint? something that lasts but isnt too hot.
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#22 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 08:03 AM

I have some 320 grit I use to use. B-4 I got hitched 24 yrs ago I painted 5 cars and my CJ5, but the ole memory isn't what it use to be :unsure: I usually did it by eye and just added a cap full of fish-eye per Qt sprayed. :2thumbdown:

#23 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 08:41 AM

View Postsoflmuddin, on Apr 15 2009, 07:15 AM, said:

experienced? you must first do it to get experience.

skinner i camouflaged one of the toys recently. i have in the past used rattle can clear to coat over the camo. works good for about 1-2 years then the clear wears away. is there a safe clear to put over spray paint? something that lasts but isnt too hot.

if you are using an enamel base paint ....basic imron all-purpose clear can be used as a good seleant .

what you can also do is spray a test panel and see what works best with certain paints . i do know imron clear will burn and bubble certain lacquer finishes also there are a few all - purpose automotive clears that can be used .

#24 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 09:15 AM

View PostRollbar, on Apr 15 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

I have some 320 grit I use to use. B-4 I got hitched 24 yrs ago I painted 5 cars and my CJ5, but the ole memory isn't what it use to be :unsure: I usually did it by eye and just added a cap full of fish-eye per Qt sprayed. :2thumbdown:

some times we use tranny fluid as a fish - eye prevenative .

#25 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 09:29 AM

View PostSkinner1, on Apr 15 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

some times we use tranny fluid as a fish - eye prevenative .


Seems like it would put an oil slick in the finish.

Here is what I will be using. I was going to go w/Dave's paint but can't spend the $ right now. Looking for work.

I recieved this from Midwest Military in '06

It's Gelespie paint 23070 OD
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#26 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 09:46 AM

i myself like to use marine style chaulking such as 101 flexable UV sealents and for awesome bonding power 5200 .

you would be surprised how great marine style products perform on jeeps due to the high abuse levels .

that por 15 is just like rust-lock just alittle thinner

#27 User is offline   Rollbar 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 01:21 PM

It's straight Enamel Semi-gloss 595-23070-11LFD OD

OK, it doesn't say how much to reduce it so I will type out the label.

1. How much should I reduce per quart? I'll reduce it right in the gun. (one qt for how many oz of reducer & fish-eye). I use to just use a cap full of fish-eye & call it even :2thumbdown: The label doesn't say or i cant read it's terminology.

Below is the label off the OD, it is the same info for the Red Oxide.
For FULL view go here if U can't read it---> http://www.street2mu...100_1944?full=1

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#28 User is offline   Skinner1 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 02:12 PM

i would reduce that 4 to 1 so that = out to every 4 oz. reduce 1oz . then spray a test shot if it sprays alittle heavy add another 1 oz. of reducer .

is that already a premix enamel or is it 3 part ....paint ...catalyst ....reducer .

sir a word of advice while using XYLENE . use caution with this product in some instances we in the paint industry try to stay away from that item its bad news .

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 02:31 PM

View PostSkinner1, on Apr 15 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

i would reduce that 4 to 1 so that = out to every 4 oz. reduce 1oz . then spray a test shot if it sprays alittle heavy add another 1 oz. of reducer .


OK

Quote

is that already a premix enamel or is it 3 part ....paint ...catalyst ....reducer .


I have no Idea. The label doesn't say or I'm a moe-ron :2thumbdown:

Quote

sir a word of advice while using XYLENE . use caution with this product in some instances we in the paint industry try to stay away from that item its bad news .


Elaborate, venting?
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#30 User is offline   SuperDave1984 

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:02 PM

I was in Tractor Supply the other day and noticed they have acrylic enamel tractor paint and hardener. Stuff is cheap too. $29.95/gallon, hardener is $14.95 I think. Anybody ever use the stuff? It's really tempting to buy a gallon and give it a try because that's less than half what you pay for paint at the paint shop. Color selection is limited of course.

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