[Rollbar]

FYI-Our fabricator/Sponsor for CCJ checked into this for his insurance to make bumpers & they told him that if something happens it could bit him in the butt. They said if he made a bumper w/a stinger it would not be insurable and is not allowed (check the local laws). The insurance company says the bumper is made to hit the other car in the right areas (that's why we have lift laws) and if the bumper is equipped w/a stinger and is involved in an accident the person w/the stinger can be held liable if injury occurs even if it's not their fault. They have experienced the stingers protruding into the vehicles and injuring/killing people Now, a removable one would be easy to do. I have a CAD of my universal front/rear bumper w/a removal stinger if anyone wanted me to post it.

P.S. Maybe some of the pigs, , OOPS, fine police officers could enlighten us on this subject. J/K

[HitMoney]

Don't call it a stinger... call it a winch hoop.

[JeepNWilly]

Do the companies that sell bumpers with stingers states this? I would think if I buy a bumper with a stinger from Quadratec or any other Jeep parts place and I happen to get into a accident wouldnt they be at risk of being sued by not stating they are not leagel on some states for street driving?

[Rollbar]

If you look at their bumpers they only stick out a couple inches. We are talking about the one that stick out 20' like this one. This is the sponsors Jeep, notice the stinger, the insurance company said

[JeepNWilly]

Rollbar, on Feb 12 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

If you look at their bumpers they only stick out a couple inches. We are talking about the one that stick out 20' like this one. This is the sponsors Jeep, notice the stinger, the insurance company said

hmm so my design, the one I emailed you only sticks out 10-3/16"

[Rollbar]

Check your local laws

[JeepNWilly]

Rollbar, on Feb 12 2009, 08:15 PM, said:

Check your local laws

I am kinda hoping an officer will chime in

[Monster76]

there gotta bways around it though like making the bumper w/a removable stinger

[JeepNWilly]

monster76, on Feb 12 2009, 08:28 PM, said:

there gotta bways around it though like making the bumper w/a removable stinger

Yeah but my design has lights on the stinger.

[Rollbar]

There is, I designed a universal front/rear bumper for a CJ w/a removal stinger that won't move/break when installed.



U don't want lights on the stinger, that is the first point of contact w/a rock & the rocks R not always as big or bigger than the stinger.

[Rollbar]

Here is my universal bumper that is trade marked

Notice the right & bottom pic & how the stinger has a "L" bracket on the top of the bumper (where U step) & the face where the stinger is longer so it will stay upright. The angle on the lights are for.......well U know.

L-Jefferson is going to turn it into a 3D or 2D pic for me soon.

So, enjoy.

[WRider]

Oh well if that is what the law states, there is nothing we can do but to obey...
Just make sure we take off the stingers on the road...

[Rollbar]

I talked to WildBill & he is going to check into it further, until then, keep stinging.

Note: The Fabricator Business in this discussion does not make stingers due to his insurance companies rules, it just might be their rules but WildBill will let us know for sure.

Thanks, Bill

[HitMoney]

Considered a stinger???

http://www.redrockfab.com/shop/jk-front-bu...ont-bumper.html

[gatordone]

Quote

I am kinda hoping an officer will chime in

most of them wouldn't know.


there is always ways around these issues. but when you get stopped you are gonna get a ticket no matter what fancy word you call it. fact is the more questionably items on your rig the more likely you are to be stopped.

[Rollbar]

HitMoney, on Feb 13 2009, 11:17 PM, said:

Considered a stinger???

http://www.redrockfab.com/shop/jk-front-bu...ont-bumper.html

From their site:
Last Modified 3/16/08

- DISCLAIMER / SAFETY INFORMATION -

All products manufactured by Red Rock Fabrication, LLC are intended for off road use only. Red Rock Fabrication, LLC makes no guarantees as to the safety or legality of our products for use on public roads. Under no circumstances shall Red Rock Fabrication, LLC be held liable for any accidents, injuries, fatalities, or property damages resulting from the use of our products on or off road.

[Wildbill]

gatordone, on Feb 14 2009, 01:08 AM, said:

most of them wouldn't know.


there is always ways around these issues. but when you get stopped you are gonna get a ticket no matter what fancy word you call it. fact is the more questionably items on your rig the more likely you are to be stopped.

Why would say this......... If you get pulled over because you are committing a violation then obviously the officer KNOWS the law and the subsequent violation. If you feel that the officer has wrongfully pulled you over then your best bet is to just accept the citation and take him/her to court. Once there the officer will have to PROOVE that the violation existed to the Judge and you. If he cited you with no proof then he just lost credibility AND broke the law himself. So, it's not likely that you would be cited for something that the officer isn't willing to go to court over.

[Wildbill]

This is what I've found so far....... It mentions nothing about the use of a stinger. If there is no FL Statute specifically stating the proper use of one, then an officer has nothing to go on as far as any violations. It's just like when the bumper laws were created and why. There were no regulations and there were folks with super jacked up vehicles that basically put the bumpers at HEAD height of lower/smaller vehicles. This causes obvious concern for the public safety. Until there starts being a problem with them (stingers) they are still allowed to be used.

Now if an independent "Privately owned" insurance company chooses to deem them unsafe and refrains from insuring such vehicles then that's their right.

KEEP IN MIND that the following is FLORIDA LAWS. If you are reading this from any other state then you are on your own and must comply with the local laws.

316.251 Maximum bumper heights.--

(1) Every motor vehicle of net shipping weight of not more than 5,000 pounds shall be equipped with a front and a rear bumper such that when measured from the ground to the bottom of the bumper the maximum height shall be as follows:

NET WEIGHT

FRONT REAR



Automobiles for private use:
Net weight of less than 2,500 pounds

22" 22"

Net weight of 2,500 pounds or more,
but less than 3,500 pounds

24" 26"

Net weight of 3,500 pounds or more

27" 29"



Trucks:
Net weight of less than 2,000 pounds
24" 26"

Net weight of 2,000 or more,
but not more than 3,000 pounds

27" 29"

Net weight of 3,000 pounds,
but not more than 5,000 pounds

28" 30"



(2) "New motor vehicles" as defined in s. 319.001(9), "antique automobiles" as defined in s. 320.08, "horseless carriages" as defined in s. 320.086, and "street rods" as defined in s. 320.0863 shall be excluded from the requirements of this section.

(3) A violation of this section shall be defined as a moving violation. A person charged with a violation of this section is subject to the penalty provided in s. 318.18.

[Rollbar]

Thank Bill, I knew you would help us out. I was just going on what I was told & by whom. Maybe there is some fine print some where and as you said, it's not been a big problem so................

P.S.
1. What defines a horseless carriage?
2. If your bumper is higher than the specs can you have one hanging by a chain to compensate or does it have to be a fixed bumper. You know, after I just typed that I think I answered my own thought. A bumpers definition is what?

www.dictionary.com

Quote

bump·er 1 (bŭm'pər) Pronunciation Key
noun.
1. A usually metal or rubber bar attached to either end of a motor vehicle, such as a truck or car, to absorb impact in a collision.
2. A protective device for absorbing shocks or impeding contact.

Some of you may like this definition

Quote

Bumper

Bum"per\, n. [A corruption of bumbard, bombard, a large drinking vessel.]

1. A cup or glass filled to the brim, or till the liquor runs over, particularly in drinking a health or toast.

He frothed his bumpers to the brim. --Tennyson.

[soflmuddin]

(2) "New motor vehicles" as defined in s. 319.001(9), "antique automobiles" as defined in s. 320.08, "horseless carriages" as defined in s. 320.086, and "street rods" as defined in s. 320.0863 shall be excluded from the requirements of this section.
so if you can get it registered as an antique then your exempt. very interesting.

Quote

Why would say this......... If you get pulled over because you are committing a violation then obviously the officer KNOWS the law and the subsequent violation.

im sure she was referring to the leos on this site, they wouldn't know off hand. i have been cited for a bumper infraction and was well within the limit. whats the law on headlight height?

[Wildbill]

soflmuddin, on Feb 15 2009, 07:22 PM, said:

(2) "New motor vehicles" as defined in s. 319.001(9), "antique automobiles" as defined in s. 320.08, "horseless carriages" as defined in s. 320.086, and "street rods" as defined in s. 320.0863 shall be excluded from the requirements of this section.
so if you can get it registered as an antique then your exempt. very interesting.





im sure she was referring to the leos on this site, they wouldn't know off hand. i have been cited for a bumper infraction and was well within the limit. whats the law on headlight height?

There actually is a Headlight Height limits, but I believe it's basically geared towards smaller vehicles and having them to low. (Slammed Ricers) Hence they wouldn't be seen as easily and the fact that the vehicle would probably either be run over by larger vehicles or they could run up under the other vehicle in a crash.

I'll look it up and post it.........

[Wildbill]

Here is the headlamp law......

316.220 Headlamps on motor vehicles.--

(1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with at least two headlamps with at least one on each side of the front of the motor vehicle, which headlamps shall comply with the requirements and limitations set forth in this chapter, and shall show a white light. An object, material, or covering that alters the headlamp's light color may not be placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied over a headlamp.

(2) Every headlamp upon every motor vehicle shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than 24 inches to be measured as set forth in s. 316.217.

(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

FSS 316.217 basically states that the lamp will be measured from flat level ground to the center of the headlamp.

[Rollbar]

Good info Bill.

?
How bout rear tail lights, can I just have one on the drives side like the old days or if I came equipped w/two I would have to have two.

[Wildbill]

Basically it states that you need two tail lights...... now the State Attorney's in this district (20th) advise us (Law Enforcement) that with the newer cars having the center third brake light and the law stating only TWO being needed the operator only needs one on either side and the 3rd brake light..... that's two Most LEO's don't agree with this because that was not the intent of the law when it was first created because there were no 3rd brake lights back then.

Now like I stated this interpetation is for MY area and it will depend on how each Judicial Circuit and the State Attorney within FL interpets the law and how they will enforce it, so in other areas you may pulled over for not having one on each side of vehicle.

[HitMoney]

Wow!

My rig is actually legal! Well it is legal when I take my tinted headlight covers off..

My bumper is 30" and my headlight center is 50"


BTW.. My headlights have VERY crappy aiming ability and without the covers I blind people with regular beams and they flash me as if I have my high beams on. When I run the tinted covers no one flashes their brights at me and I can still see fine, especially since I have my factory fog lights back with this new bumper.

[logandzwon]

Wildbill, on Feb 15 2009, 11:25 AM, said:

This is what I've found so far....... It mentions nothing about the use of a stinger. If there is no FL Statute specifically stating the proper use of one, then an officer has nothing to go on as far as any violations. It's just like when the bumper laws were created and why. There were no regulations and there were folks with super jacked up vehicles that basically put the bumpers at HEAD height of lower/smaller vehicles. This causes obvious concern for the public safety. Until there starts being a problem with them (stingers) they are still allowed to be used.

Now if an independent "Privately owned" insurance company chooses to deem them unsafe and refrains from insuring such vehicles then that's their right.

KEEP IN MIND that the following is FLORIDA LAWS. If you are reading this from any other state then you are on your own and must comply with the local laws.

316.251 Maximum bumper heights.--

(1) Every motor vehicle of net shipping weight of not more than 5,000 pounds shall be equipped with a front and a rear bumper such that when measured from the ground to the bottom of the bumper the maximum height shall be as follows:

NET WEIGHT

FRONT REAR



Automobiles for private use:
Net weight of less than 2,500 pounds

22" 22"

Net weight of 2,500 pounds or more,
but less than 3,500 pounds

24" 26"

Net weight of 3,500 pounds or more

27" 29"



Trucks:
Net weight of less than 2,000 pounds
24" 26"

Net weight of 2,000 or more,
but not more than 3,000 pounds

27" 29"

Net weight of 3,000 pounds,
but not more than 5,000 pounds

28" 30"



(2) "New motor vehicles" as defined in s. 319.001(9), "antique automobiles" as defined in s. 320.08, "horseless carriages" as defined in s. 320.086, and "street rods" as defined in s. 320.0863 shall be excluded from the requirements of this section.

(3) A violation of this section shall be defined as a moving violation. A person charged with a violation of this section is subject to the penalty provided in s. 318.18.

Which are we TJs? trucks over 3,000 pounds?

[soflmuddin]

my golf cart is illegal. headlight height is 71"

[Rollbar]

A good YOUNG moderator would move this to its propper section.

P.S. THis is a discussion on a forum out West and it helped big time.

Thanks