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Lap Belts & Harness

#1 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 30 March 2005 - 08:04 AM

I really like my stock seat belt, it has served me & protected me well through out these years. The only thing I'm really getting sick off is that when it locks on an incline and I get out to look and can't get it back on.

I looked around for 3 point harness and found two manufacturers. I don't like they way the get close around the neck & I'm not about to buy a new seat. I don't want a 4 or a 5 point for this reason. I've decided to get a lap belt, either a 2 or 3".

I would probably install this piggy back to the stock bolts on the original seat belt.

Does anyone have any preference or know where I can get one locally, even a racing shop :unsure: If you have a link or a pic it would help. I've looked at the Crow & the Corbeau, just not sure if they would separate enough around the neck with the stock seat I have now. Anyone now using it on a TJ?

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This one is made by Vintage

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Don't know if they sell just the Lap Belt.... :wacko: Vintage would not reply back and Corbeau does not sell separate.
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#2 User is offline   hyflyt 

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 10:11 AM

Don't know if this will help in your decision, but...the clasp that is shown in your picture is a pain to use compared to a twist and release type clasp. I fly for a living and have used both. If you decide to go with shoulder belts, with the twist and release, you can click in each shoulder belt separately with one hand...with the other type clasp, you have to hold all of the belts together at once and click/hook them into the clasp. Another nice feature of twist and release is that you can click a small button in back of the buckle to release only the shoulder straps while leaving the lap belt secured in place.

Maybe run out to your local airport and see what they've got.

John

#3 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 30 March 2005 - 12:35 PM

John,

Thanks for bringing a different point of view to this. Basically I've decided on either a 2" or 3" (prefer a 2") Lap belt. I'm not going to go with any shoulder as I beleive my stock has done well as I can attest to having tested twice. I need this for those off camber times that I can not get it unlocked while coming back to the vehicle.

Please clarify a few things...

Look at the pick of the black belt, is this what you mean about the twist & release :ya: I've seen some up close and the latch lifts from one side to the other to release.

Quote

with the twist and release, you can click in each shoulder belt separately with one hand...with the other type clasp, you have to hold all of the belts together at once and click/hook them into the clasp. Another nice feature of twist and release is that you can click a small button in back of the buckle to release only the shoulder straps while leaving the lap belt secured in place.

I was actually going to ask here or check the junk yard for just an old lap belt that I can take off but I like your idea of checking at the local airport or aviator supply house. If you happen to have an up close picture of this or know of any place I can pick one up (just the lap would be fine). I might just do the 3 or 4 point and weld a bar behind the seat who knows. I don't think I would give it much use, but don't mind having it for a rainy day.
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#4 User is offline   Frank YJ 

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 12:40 PM

Jim... good to see ya back and loved the pics from the trip... now on to the belt... we have the 5 pt harness in greenie, and since i haven't yet had the oppertunity to be on the rocks.... i just use the lap part riding around on the trail and the mud... if ya need any pics or anything let me know...
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#5 User is offline   YJWhenUCanTJ 

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 03:23 PM

Jim, I have used harnesses from Schroth in my past life as a drag racer. I recommend the Ralley 3 as it will fit around the stock seat, use the factory lap belt mountings, let you mount the rear to a cross bar or the floor and you can even disconnect the rear and just use the lap belt part if you have a seat and/or people in the rear. The clasp is your traditional push-button release.
David M.
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#6 User is offline   hyflyt 

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 06:28 PM

Jim,

Here is a link to a pic I found of the type of buckle I describe;

http://jeeptalk.net/index...E=02&f=2&t=2541

You'll notice that each "male" end of a belt will click into a slot of the circular buckle. You just twist a portion of the buckle to "quick release" all of the belts, or puch a button in the back to release only the shoulder belts. This style of buckle is less likely to inadvertantly come undone than the one like you had a pic of...hence, modern airplanes have these installed. I have used both styles, and as I stated earlier, the older kind with the flip over lever is a pain to use...particularly if you ever decide to go with shoulder belts.

John

#7 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 30 March 2005 - 07:03 PM

Well John, now I understand what you mean about the twist and release. It's not the one on the black picture as I originally thought you meant. The link you posted is incorrect as it goes somewhere else in this forum. I managed to get some info from Schroth with regards to these and located some pics.

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Frank, glad you liked the pics and thanks for the welcome back. Yes, if it's not too much trouble I would like to see a close up of your buckle along with your attachment points. I'm mainly interested in your attachments as this can be useful info to have here for the future.

David, thanks for the info on Schroth, was not aware... they seem to the boy in town when it comes to aviation & racing. They are not cheap. I don't think I can use the Ralley 3 though. Here is what I found with regards to the Jeep seats.

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A fully integrated headrest is not acceptable. The problem with the fully integrated headrest (far right), is that the belts can slide down the sides of the seat, and usually results in the driver sliding out of the shoulder straps under impact. A seat with no headrest, as pictured 2nd from the right, has no means of retaining the shoulder straps in the case of any sideways movement, and is also unacceptable.

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That said, I spoke to the US distributor and he is willing to just sent me the Lap parts of the Profi II with cam buckle (that buckle is the most expensive part). If later on I wish to change seats, all I have to do is buy the shoulder portion since I have the rest which is exactly what John described. He advise that I will be able to install in the same bolts as the stock belt without giving up my stock belt. :ya:

John, I questioned them about clicking a small button in back of the buckle to release only the shoulder straps, he advised that they don't do this any longer, they supply the military as well and I'm not sure if he was giving me BS or not. I'm going to call their aviation division if I get a chance tomorrow to see if their cam buckle is different. Would you know the manufacturer's name of the one that you use :ya:
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El Niņo
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#8 User is offline   hyflyt 

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 10:12 PM

Jim,

Sorry about the eroneous link. Any way, those pics you found are exactly the buckle I was talking about. I don't know the manufacturer name of the various belts I've used, but I'll ask around.

From looking at your pics, the one close up of the bottom buckle, I can see that it has that shoulder belt release. It's a lever/paddle type device on the back, flush with the top, that you depress with either thumb.

The pic that has the lap and shoulder harness on the one piece "male" end...I think that is a type that is designed with the male end having a nipple or bulge that snaps into the round part of the buckle and is lodged into the locking position. In airplanes, these are difficult to use if your fingers are cold.

Go with the close-up pic type of buckle.

John

#9 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 31 March 2005 - 08:05 AM

hyflyt, on Mar 30 2005, 10:12 PM, said:

Go with the close-up pic type of buckle.

John,

I'm having a bad morning... they both look like close up pics, are you trying to say to stick with the one on the left right under the full picture or the one on the right :ya:

They both do the same, I have to ask on the difference. The male parts is just an option of having each side (lap & shoulder) together for that particular buckle. They do have the same for single hook up on both types. I hope I'm making sense out of all this. :ya:
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El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
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"Speak not Evil of the absent for it is unjust." George Washington, Rule 89 of Civility and Decent Behavior.
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#10 User is offline   hyflyt 

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 11:45 AM

Jim,

I am refering to the pic of the black buckle with the black belts...the one with none of the belts connected to the buckle (except the one that is permantly attached). Go with that style. One of the pics shows the lap and shoulder belts attached to a single piece of metal (tan-ish belts w/ black buckle); don't go with that type as you'll be forced into wearing the shoulder belts.

I'm flying today and will try to get some pics of the belts we have along with a manufacturer name.

John

#11 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 31 March 2005 - 02:16 PM

frank_yj, on Mar 31 2005, 08:53 AM, said:

i'll swing by this-afternoon Greenie is still in the shop, but i'll get some pics for ya...

Frank, thanks, no hurry, just some good info to have on this post that also will give me additional ideas when I do my install. :ya:

Ok, here is an update. Apparently Schroth has a Racing & Aviation division, neither knows what the left or right hand is doing. I spoke to both divisions & wound up with the following.

1. You want to purchase the Belts themselves from the racing division. Model of belts... Profi II asmŪ . They also have the buckles but they are not as trick as the one John describes in his explanation.

2. If you want the better buckle (cost more of course), tell the Racing division that you want the SL11 buckle from the Aviation division. They will hook you up with both out of the same place. If the salesman does not want to do it than you will have to call both divisions and order the belts & buckle separately.

You also must tell them that this is not a street vehicle other wise they will have to sell you all the belts (including shoulders) if you just want the Lap Belt for now like I do. Something about liability. :boo:

On another note: The SL11 Aviation Buckle is what John first described as having a second top release to be able to release the shoulders only and still have the Lap Belt attached. :amazed: :ya: If you twist the main buckle, both the shoulder, lap and any other points will come loose at once. Originally the Racing division had advised that they did not make this. I particularly like this feature as I truly think if I ever install the shoulder section they would not be used as much and it will give me the freedom to move & look while still being strapped in by the Lap Belt. Keep in mind that I'm not loosing my stock belt which has provided me excellent protection up to now.

Are there cheaper belts, buckles, latches etc out there in the market... yes. I particular paid slightly more for this setup because of the comfort, quality and the features it has (kind of like buying winches), I'm sure I can take it out of the vehicle and sell it anytime I wish. I originally did not plan on spending this much :cry: but my birthday is coming up. :ya:

I've spoken with a few guys on 3" lap belts and they wish they had gone with the 2" & different latch mechanism. Thanks to John & David for turning me on to Schroth & explaining the different types along with the whys.

Now for the install. When it comes in, it should be a no brainer just for the Lap part. Currently I'm debating if I should use the same attachment points as the stock belt or go into the floor with supports or somewhere else. :ya:
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Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

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#12 User is offline   hyflyt 

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 03:47 PM

Jim,

Pacific Scientifica in Anaheim, CA is where our belts are made. I took some pics. If you'd like them emailed, email me at hyflyt1223@NOSPAMaol.com. One feature I'd forgotten about is on some of the buckles, there is a pad that is really nice...keeps your pants from turning silver...one of the pics will show that. I'd post them on the board, but I think they're too big of files.

John

#13 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 01 April 2005 - 10:38 AM

hyflyt, on Mar 31 2005, 03:47 PM, said:

One feature I'd forgotten about is on some of the buckles, there is a pad that is really nice...keeps your pants from turning silver...one of the pics will show that.

John,

I tried looking up info on this company & could not find anything. Must be that they only supply the aircraft industry directly. If you want to post up some pics, go to the help tab and click on the link "posting pics". It explains how in newbie terms and gives a link to a free program to reduce. If you don't want to bother let me know and I'll private message you my email address. Would like to see the buckle setup you guys have.

With regards to the pad, I've seen those. Seems like the Schroth Pro buckles are made out of high impact resistant composite material. The people I spoke with advised me that I will not even know it's there. I'll take some pics myself and post them up so we can see up close how the hole setup is made.

Btw, has anyone seen anyone cut slots through the stock seat, website, pics etc. :wacko:
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El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 9th Commandment.
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#14 User is offline   Frank YJ 

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 11:12 AM

Jim sorry i couldn't get by the Jeep to get ya pics... also i have racing seats so the slots are already thier... Cat isn't feeling well so i'm tending to her as of right now... definatley will be done next week so i may just have to trailer it down to the towers... and also all the pics cat broght back from Turkey...


:wacko:
93 yj lifted snorked, soon to be locked "crunchy"
80 cj5 383 1tons propane "greenie"
1949 CJ3A "turtle"
1955 & 1950 willys pickup
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#15 User is offline   hyflyt 

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 05:46 PM

I attempted to load some pics onto my "space" on AOL...no luck. Therefore, I wasn't able to link a pic.

It sounds like the pics I had were very similar to what you decided on. Keep us all posted on the installation. BTW, that link you provided to the CJ-5 forum had a thread about seat belt installation that was fairly in depth.

John

#16 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 14 April 2005 - 08:17 AM

Well I got the lap belt with camp buckle. Awesome quality especially the aviation buckle. :cool1: When I get a chance I'll post up some pics.

I'm seriously thinking of cutting slots on my stock seat (will not buy a new seat) and getting the shoulders. Again, if anyone has any info or has seen cut slots through the stock seat, website, pics etc, please let me know.

If I decide to do the shoulders I will probably add the bar below.

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El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

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#17 User is offline   stuntdrvr 

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 04:31 PM

Hello Jim,
for best prices look at Jeg's or Summit raceing on line or go to Murray's in pompano (954)788-6843 (mo $ though)
lou

#18 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 21 April 2005 - 07:20 AM

stuntdrvr, on Apr 20 2005, 04:31 PM, said:

Hello Jim,
for best prices look at Jeg's or Summit raceing on line or go to Murray's in pompano (954)788-6843 (mo $ though)
lou

Hey Lou,

Did not know that was you. Welcome to JeepTalk & be prepared to get ragged on. :cool: I like your Avatar. :ya:

Thank for the info on the belts. I actually bought them straight from the manufacturer with a small discount. He broke down the kit and just sent me the lap part. I'm thinking of calling him back to get the shoulder section. The aviation buckle is trick :ya: I've been doing some maintenance on other stuff and as soon as I get a chance to install I'll post up some pics on it.

I don't want to buy new seats, what do you think about cutting horizontal slits on the stock seat, I don't see why it would not work, could not find anyone that has done this. I would like to see if I can get a grommet for the openings. Maybe I should call a seat manufacturer, does anyone know where I might be able to get the grommets I'm looking for :welcome:
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Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
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#19 User is offline   Mr.Bead 

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 10:44 PM

ok JIm enough talk lets see some installed pics already, geeesh whats a guy got to do come up there and install them myself. :cool:

Lee :welcome:
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#20 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 22 April 2005 - 10:24 AM

bch4x4cop, on Apr 21 2005, 10:44 PM, said:

ok JIm enough talk lets see some installed pics already, geeesh whats a guy got to do come up there and install them myself.

I guess someone must be thinking of doing something along these lines & of course getting impatient. :lol:

Let me see what I can accomplish this weekend, it's only a few pics and bolts for this phase, still working on the RV maintenance. :cry:
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Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

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#21 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 22 April 2005 - 04:17 PM

I'm thinking of going this route vs the straight bar across so as not to eliminate traffic to the back seat so much. What do you guys think :lol:

Posted Image

I ordered the slots from a company called Corbeau to cut out the stock seats. :cry: $20 to my door. Posted Image
Posted Image Posted Image
El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.
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#22 User is offline   Mr.Bead 

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Posted 22 April 2005 - 04:49 PM

Jim,

i personally like the rear straight across bar. however i think in your situation you would be better off getting the two seperate angled bars. i know the kids would appreciate just having to duck a little rather then having to climb over a bar. just my $0.02

Lee
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#23 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 23 April 2005 - 06:43 PM

bch4x4cop, on Apr 22 2005, 04:49 PM, said:

i personally like the rear straight across bar.

Me too! :wacko:

But as you mentioned... the kids and rear seat. I plan to only get the one on the driver and not the passenger side if I can't think of another way to accomplish this. Corresponded with a few that have them and they say it's not a problem. :cool:
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El Niņo
Experience is defined as something you get, after you need it.
Give the world the best you have. The best will come back to you...

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#24 User is offline   JeepinIan 

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 07:41 PM

If I am not mistaken, the shoulder straps should be about level w/ your shoulders to the bar that either the straps are mounted to or they curve over.
IIRC, if the straps are too low, spine compression could result, being too hig may not keep you in place very well.
Ian Stewart

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#25 User is offline   JeepinIan 

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Posted 23 April 2005 - 07:42 PM

Jim B, on Apr 23 2005, 06:43 PM, said:

bch4x4cop, on Apr 22 2005, 04:49 PM, said:

i personally like the rear straight across bar.

Me too! :wacko:

But as you mentioned... the kids and rear seat. ...

Which is more important, easy access for the kids, or keeping Daddy safe to return to them after a wheeling incident?
Ian Stewart

If you don't fight for the trails, there won't be any trails to fight for.

What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.
Zig Ziglar

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ....

John Stuart Mill

#26 User is offline   Jim B 

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  Posted 24 April 2005 - 08:12 AM

JeepinIan, on Apr 23 2005, 07:42 PM, said:

Which is more important, easy access for the kids, or keeping Daddy safe to return to them after a wheeling incident?

Could not agree with you more, will always appreciate you keeping me straight & telling me so. :cool1: I believe in this instance though I would not be giving up safety.

The straight bar is definitely a cleaner look and much cleaner for the shoulder belts. :ya: The 45 degree angle bar actually provides better support engineering wise for the actual cage, :ya: a bit sloppy for the belts from the rear, :cool: but once they go through the backrest of the seat, they remain in place and do the job just as well, you will not be able to tell from the front.

In this instance I'm giving up a cleaner look for the back seat riders, the jury is still out though. :wacko:
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El Niņo
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